Advertisement

Deborah 13: Servant of God

A documentary about 13-year-old Deborah Drapper, who, unlike other British teens has never heard of Britney Spears or Victoria Beckham. She has been brought up in a deeply Christian family and her parents have tried to make sure she and her ten brothers and sisters have grown up protected from the sins of the outside world.

Deborah is a bright, confident girl who has big ambitions for her life and the film spends a summer with her as she ventures out in the world to see what life outside her family could be and starts putting her beliefs forward to a wider audience.

Join The Conversation

760 Comments / User Reviews

Leave Your Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.

  1. I see so many comments below condemning this girl and her parents, I too feel sorry for her, that she hasn’t experienced the world and come to her own beliefs, however, what’s worse, a girl devout in her belief of god or the louts that destroyed London recently? the thugs that walk down the streets in every city in the western world? I know which one I’d prefer.
    I’m not a catholic, in fact if I see something religious on tv I have to change it, but I do think you have to respect peoples beliefs, even when they’re not your own, probably especially if they’re not your own.
    This girl hasn’t been raised in what we would see as the right way, but it’s not the wrong way either, she has respect for all that’s around her, she’s interested in learning and she’s young so she’ll learn more. How she’ll end up only time can tell. I do know that I’d rather have her as a neighbour than some of the scumbags that are living near me now!

  2. I see so many comments below condemning this girl and her parents, I too feel sorry for her, that she hasn’t experienced the world and come to her own beliefs, however, what’s worse, a girl devout in her belief of god or the louts that destroyed London recently? the thugs that walk down the streets in every city in the western world? I know which one I’d prefer.
    I’m not a catholic, in fact if I see something religious on tv I have to change it, but I do think you have to respect peoples beliefs, even when they’re not your own, probably especially if they’re not your own.
    This girl hasn’t been raised in what we would see as the right way, but it’s not the wrong way either, she has respect for all that’s around her, she’s interested in learning and she’s young so she’ll learn more. How she’ll end up only time can tell. I do know that I’d rather have her as a neighbour than some of the scumbags that are living near me now!

  3. Wow, this girl is gonna feel BAD when she has her first lesbian fantasy.

  4. Notice how every time she talks about religion she focuses on guilt, self-hatred and fear. You don’t want to raise a child like that. I blame the parents for not teaching her to tolerate and love everyone equally. I think it’s so sad that she can’t open up to anyone or make friends because her only topic of conversation is religion.

  5. I know a lot of the comments here are saying that this girl is hateful, but it sort of seems the opposite to me. I know she has some weird beliefs, but it seems her actions are motivated at the heart by compassion.

    I mean I don’t think she would be very interested in trying to save people from hell if she didn’t care about the people she was talking to. She seems very troubled by the thought that if she doesn’t share her faith terrible thing might happen to them (ie go to Hell). I think she would feel very guilty and blame herself for anything bad that happened if she chose not to share. That’s a lot of responsibility for a 13 year old. I mean it pretty clear from the documentary that she is not sharing the gospel to make people feel bad about themselves, its because she wants to be able to share heaven with as many people as she can. She might work on her delivery though, as in general she seems to just be accomplishing making people feel awkward.

    Also, I’m pretty sure Jesus drank wine…. He was Jewish… Hard to imagine Passover without wine. So I’m a bit unclear on this view of drinking she has…

  6. I think she’s awesome.

  7. lol. it’s funny because, you can’t just give them hard scientific facts and expect them to abandon their beliefs. The simple thing to do is not tell the children of the Cristian God, see if they find him on their own. The only reasonable thing you can do is to ignore them and let them prey to their god for food, medicine, technology, while the non believers evolve technologically. And if you are afraid  that god may smack you down, based on their prayers, do not worry, there is no statical evidence that that might happen.

  8. This girl is a vile, precocious, arrogant psychopath. The presence of such maniacs in society is frankly dangerous. Her experience of the world is limited to her home, her family and her bible. Her readiness to stand in moral judgement of others without so much as an ounce of real world experience is sickening. Notice that when she mentioned the subjects she was studying at home that science was not mentioned? Her parents have brainwashed this arrogant little princess. Frankly anybody who can hold such base views about the existence of ‘god’ in the age of science today should be locked in a mental institute. A supreme being that is everywhere, all of the time and exerts infinite power over the universe and yet never reveals itself empirically or explicitly to non believers is a total farce.

    The following arguments fail on their own intrinsic nature:

    1) I don’t need proof I have faith
    2) God does reveal himself all around us in nature
    3) God doesn’t need to reveal himself

    That is to say they all fail because they require the acceptance of an unproved premise expressed within the statement in order to work. They effectively shift the goal posts in the same way that the Ontological argument does in order to make themselves appear infallible when in reality they are false by their own intrinsic logic.

    If you haven’t worked it out yet, Christianity is a cobbled together mess of folklore (watch the Bill Maher film ‘Religulous’ for further clarification on this point) used as propaganda in early civilisation as a tool of control by the church and the state. We now have laws, the legislature and democratic government to achieve this aim – those who still blindly follow a collection of fairy tales of a bearded man in the sky and attempt to push this sick view onto others are deeply dangerous individuals.

    • She’s a very sensible and brave girl. I don’t think she is theologically “on”, though. Nobody is “saved”, exactly – it depends upon your spiritual state. Jesus did die for our sins and atoned to God for them. So God the Father won’t block the way. But Jesus Himself will block our entrance if we don’t live our lives in imitation of Him. This “once saved always saved” thing is wrong. St. Paul said to “work out your salvation with fear and trembling”. And St. James said that faith without good works is dead.

    • What creates us is as basic as the argument of the egg or the chicken!  No one individual has ever been able to explain that question.  Until someone comes up with this answer, and I suspect it will never be delivered, then you should keep your crude opinion devised in anger to completely to yourself unless you want the world to know you are biased and a shallow as a frogs pee!

    • Very, Very, Very, well put.  THANK YOU!!!!!

    • I pray that God comes into your life and changes your way of thinking – because God changed my life dramatically, and I hope he changes your’s too. If you think that Christianity is folklore, then maybe read the Bible to change that way of thinking. Also read a Case for Christ – then think again

      • Read a history book, then think again.
        I recommend Christianity: The First Three Thousand Years.

        It will paint out to you nicely, using only credible historical fact and juxtopostion of the Bible, the fact that Christianity is absolute fabricated bullshit.
        Anyone with a shred of knowledge on the Bible can show you how full it is of contradictions and stories stolen from other cultures religious myths during their time spent being oppressed by them in the Old Testament.

        Please dump that nasty patronizing attitude of yours; just because we are more intelligent than you and are not interested in praying to some all powerful man in the sky does not mean we need your prayer or sympathy.  You people disgust me.

        • I am going to ask you a simple question – have you ever actually read the Bible? Be honest – please!

          • Yes. Surest path to becoming a non-Christian? Read the Bible. Lovely book. Slaughter of infants; offering one’s own daughter to be your neighbor’s rape-slave; killing your own son to prove you really really love god; two girls getting their dad drunk so they could fuck him (that one was Noah, by the way). I could go on and on. I am not embellishing in the slightest. Every last bit of that trash is in that tome of “morality” people base their lives upon. Anyone who could read all that and claim that it is full of love and will engender goodwill and empathy is either a sociopath, a liar, or extremely stupid.

    • God does reveal himself and the reason people believe is because he does this… give it a chance. Do you really think intelligent people believe something they have no proof of. Thats ridiculous, why do you really think christians want to convert people so much? its effort, its difficult and you put yourself in the way of people mocking you. They only do it cause they know the truth, love people so much that they dont want you to end up in a place of eternal separation from God.

      • That may be true that the doctrines within the bible tells to treat people with respect and love.One doesnt need a book above all else to tell us that.Common sense tells us not to kill,treat people well and with respect.Why would you intentionally put yourself in the firing line of mockery.Total idiocy.

        • So when people intentionally put themselves in the firing line of mockery because they for example believe in democracy, they are idiots? People in a selfish culture who go out of their own way to help others for altruistic reasons, and are being mocked for that, are they idiots? These are values that you support yourself. So you would not hold on to them if you would get mocked for them?

      • There is nothing you people consider to be “proof” of God that science cannot explain besides what happened at the very begining.  The jump from Unity to Multiplicity is central to every cultures religious creation myths.  What makes your account in the Bible the one TRUE one?It’s worth noting that the first written accounts of Genesis were not written down until the first milennia BCE, by which time the Jews had been heavily influenced during their years of opression by nearly every other culture in the meditearannean and beyond.  Why do you think the story of Noah and his ark is almost IDENTICAL (including the doves) to the much more ancient tale of Gilgamesh and the flood recorded in Sumerian myth?
        Learn a little about Jewish culture pre Civlized Era, what you call AD, and who and what influenced them during those times and you’ll very quickly come to understand where these tales and stories came from.If you’re not willing to read books on the history of the religion you follow please stop spreading your irrational bullshit, kk thanks 🙂

        • Science cannot prove what you are claiming here. Science is just guessing. Science assumes that some parts of the Bible were written at the late date you mention, because science can never admit anything supernatural, so the easiest way to explain how prophecies could be literally fulfilled, is to say that the prophecies were written AFTER the event occurred. (The branch of science that deals with this kind of issues is called Higher Bible Criticism.) So when for example among the Dead Sea Scrolls was found a copy of the book of Daniel, they had to adjust the dating of the book to what fits their view of the content, though it was originally dated earlier. Science is good when it sticks to objective facts, but when it becomes subjective, the conclusions are worthless. The problem is that scientists have a difficulty with leaving questions open when they cannot explain, so they come up with hypothesis and twist the objective facts in many cases to fit the hypothesis. There are thousands of artifacts in the museums that are not being displayed to the public, because they do not fit into the commonly ASSUMED hypothesis. Scientists would be embarrassed if posed with questions about them, so they put them away.

          Two main reasons why you can find the flood story in almost every culture, is because it really happened, and because it was an universal flood. Almost all, if not all, fossils that have been found support the universal flood story. This does not make the story in the Bible less credible, to the contrary the other versions of the flood support the credibility of the Bible. There are differences in details between different flood stories, but that is the normal case when people are involved. The same goes for eye witness recounts in courts, and justice does not always have a problem with that.

          It is true that Jewish culture during the last decades before the Christian Era were influenced by e.g. Greek philosophy. At this time the Old Testament was already written (if you follow the internal evidence/claims in the Old Testament), whereas in the Apocryphal books of the intertestamental period you will find influences from the at that time universally culturally prominent Greek beliefs. That is why the Apocrypha were never canonized. The Old Testament in itself is a coherent proof of an untainted religion originating in divine inspiration. If you have a problem with the word ‘proof’ in the previous sentence, just call it ‘scientifically unexplained’ or something. Be humble! Live and let live!

    • I understand why you could think this girl is mislead, segregated and brainwashed. I also think that her belief in religion is based on the acceptance of an unproved premise. I don’t think I agree with the way she is brought up. But I don’t understand why you think she is vile and a psychopath. I agree that she comes across as smug and arrogant but she is claiming to have found God. She may be wrong, but she wants the people she is preaching to to live better lives. She has a smug way of doing it but she is preaching what she believes in. She is doing what she thinks is best for others. She may be wrong but she is doing what she thinks is right from what she has learned. I agree that religious institutions have been used to control people but she is not trying to do that. She wants people to live good lives. Her way of doing it might not appeal to you, and you might not agree, I’m not sure if I do, but I still don’t understand why you are calling her these names? I’d love to hear your response as you sound like you are well educated. I don’t know much about religion or philosophy but I know that we all lived similar lives to her, there would be a lot less anguish and suffering in the world.

    • The idea that someone/thing can judge you is what people find the most alarming and painful to confront. If people live however they please, they should own that decision. People have to take control of their lives and not just throw it to the current trends. If a person decides not to follow the word of God, then they shouldn’t be threatened by another person’s witnessing. Because everyone has their own lives and decides how to live them, why would the beliefs of another person lead them to feel intimidated (“this girl is a vile, precocious, arrogant psychopath”)? I think only makes sense that while people are alive they ask themselves if they are comfortable with the way they live. Everyone should be responsible for their actions and behavior. I think people that don’t feel in control are the ones that fear judgement and if you turn a critical eye on yourself, the assessment of a girl like Deborah is only more data to evaluate your own life by.

      • i think the reason this girl is witnessing is probably because she doesnt feel they know all their options. if people are fully informed and they choose not to follow God its different. if you have a personal relationship with God and know the truth then it is our duty to spread the word so that people have the chance to be saved. i merely think most people dont have the courage to risk putting themself in a situation where they could he hurt/mocked/outcast.

    • And calling a 13 year old girl who has the confidence and character to believe in something..and act on it..selflessly…makes you less vile and not a psychopath..how?

      At the very least she’s not hurting anyone..

      • it is not confidence and character, its not even her opinion its whats been brainwashed into her head. she doesnt even have the facts or life experience to form her own opinion and frankly it is so unsettling to me that people like that are allowed to have children! i dont see confidence i see a sad and depressed child that feels doomed and she cant enjoy anything in life bc she knows that this life is merely to get her to the afterlife. this kind of indoctrination will only form a child that will grow up to feel shame and guilt because its been bread in her to believe that if she took a pencil out of her brothers room without telling him then shes in the same catagory as a pedefile thats proposterous and really just sad. shell probably grown up to be a self medicating junky because she wont be able to deal with all the guilt and shame thats been beat into her, and she doesnt care about what people think of her because shes been confined to a house with her family and noone else.

      • Yes she is hurting someone, herself. I will admit that I haven’t watched this yet, but any child who is brought up in a ‘deeply Christian household’ has been brainwashed, sorry. When you are a child you look to your parents for guidance on the world. If you are a loving parent you leave questions of faith for their own discovery and simply teach right and wrong. This is why we have so many Islamic fundamentalists, because of this sort of brain washing.

        • I would say that I have been brought up in a “deeply Christian household”, and yes, through that I have become a Christian. Clearly there has been influence in that my parents took me to church throughout my childhood, but that does not mean I am brainwashed. I have made my own choice to follow God. Of course loving parents with Christian beliefs are going to want their children to ahve the same beliefs as them because of the Bible’s teaching that faith is the only way to heaven and a loving parent obviously wants the best for their children, clearly heaven is the best option there. Ultimately we all make our own decisions, regardless of what we are told by others, even if we don’t reveal them to others. 

          • “I have made my own choice to follow God.”

            Which god? The god of your parents, as you said.

            If you were born in Iraq, you would likely believe in the god of your parents, a different god.

            If you were born in Utah, you would likely believe in the god of your parents, a different spin on god.

            I think that these examples define Spiritual Abuse, if not Brainwashing.

            I am a recovering victim of spiritual abuse and, over the last fifteen years or so, have come to experience the glorious freedom from the chains of bondage that belief in Christianity held me in. By embracing my own opinions as equally valid as the “Truths” taught to me by others, I can decide on my own what I consider truth. 

            I’m certain that my four older sisters would attest to “loving parents with Christian beliefs” and firmly believing “the Bible’s teaching that faith is the only way to heaven” as you have stated.

            Yet, my four sisters suffer in ways that would be impossible for me to relate here, all due to someone else’s beliefs passed on to them before they had the ability to decide for themselves.

            If that isn’t abuse, what is?

            Read “The Four Agreements” by Don Miguel Ruiz and the first few chapters of “The Middle Passage” by James Hollis to understand better how the beliefs of family, religion, culture and society form and shape our beliefs and give us the lenses through which we see and interpret the world.

        • Conforming to society is a sort of brainwashing as well. When someone has their own opinions that don’t match with the general populace they receive pressure to conform and align their thoughts with others. Whether a person’s beliefs are Christian, Muslim, etc. everyone faces a sort of brainwashing by society through mainstream media (music, tv, movies).

    • Kotchpatts you clearly are the one who is dangerous. People are free to make their own decisions, make their own mistakes and seek what they wish to seek in life without being judged vile or pyschopathic. Notice that science was not mentioned? People like you make me sick because you cant accept the fact – Yes FACT that people have different views, wants and needs and that Science is not infallible. The big bang is a THEORY. Darwinism is a THEORY. You can believe all the empirical evidence (not much) to suggest you came from a monkey and i wouldnt disagree with this in your case. Your view of God as a bearded man in the sky signifies your complete lack of open mindedness shown previously with your caustic comments and faulty arguments.

      Your proof for Christianity being a mish mash of folklore – Bil Maher???

      Ill tell you something about Christianity that is not in any folklore, it has a message of love!
      Infinite love. Something that is hard to grasp for someone who is all head and no heart.

      • Robdextrous, first of all, the fallibility of science and self-correcting measures to correct that fallibility are built into the scientific method itself. Science is not perfect, granted, but it does one thing that religion can never do, and that is correct itself, and it does this very well. Second, a scientific theory is much different in nature than the common everyday “theory” to which you are referring. And you are right, there is “not much” empirical evidence that we came from monkeys, probably due to the fact we DIDN’T come from monkeys, but from a common ancestor. You need to study Evolution a bit more before you critique it. Last but not least, apparently you do not even have a solid grasp on your own religion, because at its heart Christianity is based on fear, power, and authority, not to mention an extra second helping of guilt. These serve to perpetuate the religion, brainwash new adherents, and offer an artificial, shoddy “cure” for a disease called “sin” it manufactured in the first place. It’s an absolutely brilliant strategy for wrecking the emotional and social lives of untold millions, hindering the progress of the human species, and offering as its greatest attraction the gift of an invisible afterlife reward of which is required absolutely no proof. I would certainly love to sign up for this religion, but I’ve “already done that and all I got was this lousy T-shirt” so no thanks, I’ll pass this time around.

      • I am a Christian. But (like CS Lewis) I also accept biological evolution as God’s method for bringing us about. If you bother to study — REALLY study — geology, fossils (such as the varied ecosystems within the Grand Canyon), genetics, and such, you will surely accept evolution. Read “The Language of God” by Francis Collins. And don’t misunderstand — “theory” in science doesn’t mean a “guess” but rather a working system, like, “germ theory”. Yet germs are facts, not some wild guess.

      • Funny how you blame Kotchpatts for being so narrow minded while you yourself seem so angry and quick to judge his point of view. Believe me I don’t agree with his remarks at all! However, your response makes you look just as ignorant as he is. We do all have our own opinions. Opinions are defined as
        a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
        a personal view, attitude, or appraisalAs an individual who talks about a message of infinite love you more than anyone should be a calm example of the goodness of God.Just saying.

      • right you both have a jaded view here. The girl is a product of her education , so can not be to blame , nor does it make her views different or open minded. Her chance to make her own mistake’s and choice’s have been stripped away. 

      •  wow.. you retard.. THEORY when related to science is not something you think of overnight when you cannot sleep and had too much coffee. When it comes to scientific theories, it means they are supported by a long time of testing, data and analysis and most importantly a very good peer review before any such thing is even discussed.  Get you facts straight and you head checked. believing in  something which a man written book tells you and take it as a word of god. the book was written by someone who didn’t even saw jesus (if such a person ever existed). the bible was written down by people who heard stories of miracles of jesus by people around them.

        What a f***ing moron.

      • “People are free to make their own decisions”
        She didn’t. She was heavily indoctrinated from the time she could speak. She was told what to believe.

        “Science is not infallible.”

        Science is a method. It seeks to find the truth of the way things are. As such, your sentence here makes no sense.

        ” The big bang is a THEORY. Darwinism is a THEORY.”

        It is very, very clear that you do not know what a theory is. You think you do, but thinking you do and actually knowing are two different things here.

        ” You can believe all the empirical evidence (not much) to suggest you came from a monkey and i wouldnt disagree with this in your case.”Wow. Where to start. So you agree that he, a Homo sapien, evolved from other forms of life, most recently other primate, but you, a Homo sapien, have not? Am I getting that right? Also, that you think there is not much evidence for evolution is just more clear evidence of your ignorance surrounding science. 

        “Your proof for Christianity being a mish mash of folklore – Bil Maher???”

        He did mention Bill Maher, but how do you know his citation of Maher is not just an example if an easily accessible, contemporary work? He could have Joseph Campbell in mind as well.

        “Ill tell you something about Christianity that is not in any folklore, it has a message of love!”

        Chantal covered this quite well. One could also cite many verses from the Bible to dissolve this assertion of yours.

        • I believe that the codification of the scientific method is attributable to Robert Grosseteste, an English Bishop, and Roger Bacon, a Franciscan Friar. (circa 13th century – when merry old England was all Catholic)

      • In a society people are not free to make their own decisions.  I can’t think why Robdextrous should think that we are.  We have laws and rules to restrict us which we must adhere to – unless of course you think that Torture, Rape, Genocide and all the other horrible things that people do is OK as anyone should be allowed to think and act however they want.  Clearly, however, this girl has been given no chance to think for herself at all.  Moreover, the big bang is not a theory nor is Darwinism a theory in the word meaning that Robdextrous wrongly uses it.  a ‘theory’ in science is not a ‘suggestion’ as Robdextrous thinks it is – it means a logically and evidenced proof set open to test.

      • Tell me something Robdextrous, if Christianity has a “message of love” then how come there are so many sadistic mass murders who claim to have talked to God.  How come there are so many priests who have ruined poor young boys lives?  With this being said, I do agree with you on one point you said early on in your statement, which is “People are free to make their own decisions.”  I personally know some people who believe in God, and for them, it has got them through some very rough times, like loosing a son or daughter.  So I am happy some people can turn to faith and God rather than doing something horrible to someone else or themselves when they are struggling in life.  HOWEVER, Religion and Christianity are EXACTLY what they claim to be…BELIEFS!!!!  And quite frankly I don’t know why all the damn Christians can’t get it through there closed minded little skulls that not EVERYONE does nor should they believe in GOD.  And do you know why?  Because it’s a BELIEF, not a FACT!  People can believe in anything they want.  I believe that I can be a strong, motivated, happy, and nice person…WITHOUT God.  Sadly, I wish I could say the same for most people who DO believe in God.  The truth is, I have met many many many more people who follow Christianity that are severally messed up and just down right mean people when compared to how many I’ve met that are atheist or agnostic.  Take it however you want, in my life experiences, it’s the truth.  I love science, why do you think I’m on this damn website all the time talking and watching documentaries.  When I found this website, was in real authentic heaven haha

      • “darwinism is a theory”…

        So is gravity.

      • All love? Remember the book Deuteronomy? How about verse 7, “When the Lord your God delivers them over to you, you shall conquer them and utterly destroy them.”

        A whole lot of this is Gods love

        • Did you read the rest of Deuteronomy chapter 7? Or did you ignore the question WHY God would be so harsh? If you do not ask the deeper questions, you will never understand God or the Bible. It is not a book for superficial reading, especially not the Old Testament.

          If you know beforehand that your child will be led astray by some new “friends” to heavy, deadly drug abuse, would you do anything to stop it? In this case God had told some four hundred years in advance to Abraham that his descendants, if they stayed in a relation with God, would receive the land of certain peoples. God said to Abraham that the land would not be given “now”, because those people would have four hundred years time to discover God and turn to him. So those people got news that God four hundred years later delivered his people (the descendants of Abraham at this time had multiplied to millions) from slavery in Egypt, he had opened the Reed Sea for them so that they could walk across, and not get killed by the Egyptian army, they had heard that God fed them miraculously for forty years in the desert, and stopped the waters of the river Jordan when they approached Jericho, and the walls of that city fell down “by themselves” at the right moment, plus many other impressive facts. But those peoples refused to take heed to the only true God who could perform all this. They preferred continuing with very base behavior (e.g. sacrificing their children to their idols). God wanted to spare his own people from influence from those other peoples, and because God is God, he also knew that none of those people would in his/her life time turn to him. That is a couple of reasons WHY God gave the instruction you are quoting.

          I regret that my answer is short, and I am afraid it is not too convincing, since every aspect cannot be considered in this limited space. There are however other sources available …

      • Gravitation is a theory as well, but I’m pretty sure you believe in that one. Idiot. A theory is a testable hypothesis that fits the known facts. The very fact that you think evolution demands that you believe we are descended from “monkeys”, tells me all I need to know about your level of education.

        • You are a fucking idiot.  Guess what, Science is my religion and I’m sticking to it.  You want to know the beauty about science?  Usually, scientists admit when they are wrong…which is very UNLIKE Christians!!!  No, when you guys are wrong, you just try to cover it up by re-writing the bible one more time.  People can believe anything they want and I wish Christians would understand that.  I will love anyone who is nice and genuinely a good person, whether they believe in god, satan, some crazy alien race, who just plain don’t give a shit and just live their life to the fullest.

          With that said,  I agree with this core argument, if you believe in a scientific theory, in an essence, you are committing an act of faith.  But I must have a much different look on “faith” as most people… I feel that I can have faith in something without it being connected to God, a religion, or christianity in any way.  Do people not see faith that way?  Is it just me?  For me, faith is just a synonym for hope.  And you can have hope without god being involved.

      • Christianity is a piece of shit, no religion has done so much harm, Its for brainless people to follow theyr “god”, with no worries of responsibility.

      • Before it is getting out of hands….
        the problem is not to be on one or the other side (personally i would call myself a agnostic).
        The problem is that both sides fighting each other.
        The only thing Deborah said, that i would questioning is what she said in the chat with her brother before visiting him in his “new life”.
        She ask him about the big bang theory.
        At the end of this take she asked how anyone can belief in such an idiotic belief.
        That is the point!!!!!
        If you are a believer, in whatever you want, all other beliefs have to be false. (Yes i would call science also a believe because, although i prefer its point of view, it is still in the hunt for the answer of everything like any other religion yet)
        I would like to see people saying: That is what you belief, an this is mine. As long as we do not harm each other, everybody has its own red line, guiding him or her through this existence and everything is fine…

        In memory of Bill Hicks:
        Let`s put aside our laughable fights and explore our universe…together…for eternity

        • Wow, you think seriously exactly like I do!  Thank you!

        • Science is not a belief… it is fact. 
          ” it is still in the hunt for the answer of everything like any other religion”, 

          ummm, no. Science is based on PROOF. Hypotheses are tested again and again to see if is correct. Not just blind belief: well the bible says so….

          Religion was created to control the masses. Common knowledge. “Behave yourself or you will spend eternity in hell”.

          Christianity is not unique, most of the stories and characters are versions of stories that were already old folklore.

          Religion isn’t the hunt for answers, it’s the suppression of ideas and knowledge.

          • Unless you’ve truly explored the bible and have yourself attempted to know your creator, God Almighty Himself, your opinion is not fact based and meaningless. Those who continue to laugh at God will suffer the consequences. Those who follow Christ and know God in this life are already reaping the rewards. Right now. The kingdom is now…in your heart.

          • True science is based on objective facts. When there are not enough facts to explain something, the scientists like to create hypothesis. Hypothesis should never be called science. When you believe in a hypothesis, you act out of faith. Same goes for atheism. Our beliefs control us. If I do not believe the bridge will hold me, I do not cross.

            Science is defined by philosophy. Philosophy of science limits the scope of science, popularly defined so: “If you cannot repeat it in a laboratory, it has never happened.” The problem is when scientists start talking about what cannot be repeated “in the laboratory”. That is hypothesis. When people believe them you have a new religion. Some may call it materialism. It has caused lots of problems.The Bible has been historically and archaeologically proven to be a reliable source of information. When the Bible is misused or misinterpreted you have religion that you can use for whatever egotistic purposes you want, just like hypothesis.There is an enormous difference between religiosity in general, or call it formal Christendom, on the one hand, and the challenge to be a follower of Jesus Christ on the other hand. Read any of the four Gospels in the New Testament, and you will know.

          • The problem with science is that sometimes through human error they even get the facts wrong. The biggest problem is that because I can’t run my own experiment every time I want to quote science, I simply have to believe that what I am told as true. So in the end science is based on faith, faith that I got the right information.

          • “When you believe in a hypothesis, you act out of faith.”

            You don’t believe hypotheses, you formulate them then test them and call on other scientists to do the same.
            “The Bible has been historically and archaeologically proven to be a reliable source of information.”I’ll match this assertion for assertion. No, it hasn’t.

          • I completely agree. The stories in the Old Testament are mostly based on earlier Sumerian myths (The Epic of Gilgamesh for example) while the New Testament was vwritten 50-100 years after the events it recounts by people who weren’t even present (with the possible exception of John) and had a clear agenda to make the circumstances of Jesus’s birth fit with OT prophecies about the Messiah to give the new religion credibility. There is much evidence for this: the differences in style, language and vocabulary, the numerous contradictions between versions of the same story, countless translation errors, etc. It is quite clearly a fabrication – albeit a mostly harmless one with a mostly positive message. This should be apparent to anyone who has studied it carefully, as I have.

            Science , on the other hand, doesn’t have all the answers, but nor does it claim to. It’s about the quest for knowledge. As Deborah herself says, it only accepts as fact that which can be proven scientifically. It has never said there is no god, only that there is no verifiable evidence for him, and that his existence is unlikely based on what we have learned so far. I think all humans whatever their beliefs can understand and respect that.

            From a personal point of view, I grew up like Deborah , and I feel very sorry for her, because I don’t think it’s right to indoctrinate children into any religion; they need to be allowed to make up their own minds about what they believe in based on their own experiences. As children, they are far too young to do so. From my own experiences I know how harmful it can be to raise a child in fear of hell. Frankly I find the suggestion that one cannot be a good and moral person without the promise of a reward in heaven or the threat of punishment in hell, or without the belief in a supreme being. People should be allowed to believe what they want, as long as it doesn’t harm others. And Ithink Deborah’s parents have undoubtedly harmed her.

          • That 3rd last sentence should end ‘…insulting’.

          • comment error: did read bible, did not read wikipedia:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothesis
            The differenece between religion as explanation for something and science should be pretty clear after reading this.
            No need to thank me for continuing your education, all part of helping my fellow man as a good christian should

            PS. appologies for the doublepost, don’t know what went wrong

        • This problem is to be 110% on one side, that is the christianity side. You have no brains or balls , if you state that the problem is on both sides

      • How can it be a message of love if it scares people with a hell? Love may be embraced outside marriage, in the form of a white lie compliment; in many ways that are considered sinful. Seems more like a message of fear and brainwash to me. 

        Morals CAN and DO exist outside of religion.

        • My belief is based on the Bible, and I cannot prove with the Bible that there is or will be any hell, such as most people describe it (where people will be tortured for ever). The problem with much so called Christian belief is that the original faith is mixed up with traditions from other sources. If you seek the plain truth you will find it, and it is not bad.

        • Did someone say morals exist outside religion?? I don’t see that in robdextrous’ comment. Is that what you’re insinuating?

          • Well as an atheist, I live my life as a kind and
            good person (shock horror). I do not believe in the afterlife, so am a good
            person without the promise of a personal reward in ‘heaven’ or the threat of
            punishment in ‘hell’. I see many religions as self-pleasing and utterly
            self-indulgent. Morality is not inherent with religious conviction. I am aware
            that you are probably not intellectually capable of considering this, as  you have demonstrated a restricted and limited
            approach to your thinking.

          • But you don’t get to decide whether there really is or isn’t a God. You can only decide to believe it or not. God will not appear because I say there’s a God, and if there is a God, He won’t disappear because you say there is not a God. If Jesus Christ did not rise from the dead, then my life is a joke – I’m a pathetic fool. But if He did, what does that make you?

      • Realize Darwinism is not a theory, Evoloution is.  Disproving both Evolution and the Big Bang does not by default prove the existence of god, gods, or anything else.  

        • So maybe we should call Darwinism a religion? Anyway, it laid the foundation for the Holocaust and other similar “problems”, such as generations without dignity who commit suicide for lack of reason for living … as it teaches us that we came from nothing and have nothing to look forward to.

          If Jesus and God is a lie, it is a much more beautiful lie, though. Numerous people have found hope and joy in this, strong societies have been built on ideas from the Bible. Medical and other sciences prove that Christians lead a better, happier, healthier life than those who have no particular religious affiliation.

          • “So maybe we should call Darwinism a religion? Anyway, it laid the foundation for the Holocaust and other similar “problems”…”
            If you study the culture that produced Hitler, you will find that several generations of Christian fundamentalism created a situation where the German people participated in willful genocide.

            Read the book “For Your Own Good” by Alice Miller and it may help you understand how an entire nation followed a psychopath and killed millions of their own.

            By the way, there is way too much anger and hatred going on in these posts. It isn’t wise to say things to people on an anonymous website that you wouldn’t say face to face.

          • Maybe you can call it a religion, I won’t.  My understanding of it is that it does not rely on a supernatural creator, worship of a deity, nor does it possess tenets that those who ascribe to it are commanded to follow under pain of everlasting suffering (which nearly all ignore anyway).  Nor does it state that we are worthless and unworthy of anything, as Christianity takes great pains to remind you of, and which you’d readily admit.   
            Your lack of knowledge on this subject, and the pulled from your ass assertions that it is the foundation of the Holocaust (I’ll assume you mean the one in the 20th Century–not the ones that predate Darwin), that science has proven that Christians (to the exclusion of all other religions I presume) lead better, happier and healthier lives than those who don’t is as astounding as the special pleading you felt compelled to preface it with.

    • “A supreme being that is everywhere, all of the time and exerts infinite power over the universe and yet never reveals itself empirically or explicitly to non believers is a total farce”.

      God revealed himself through the man, Jesus Christ. There are a great many books, both secular, Jewish and Christian which testify to this fact.

  9. When I was a christian I used to pray and talk to god. I’d have conversations with him. It’s kind of funny but I was horribly upset when John Candy died. I remember crying and praying to God saying why did he have to take him off this planet haha! At the time I was a wreck, but when I prayed to god he told me that he was fine and in fact happier in heaven and that everything was going to be ok. In retrospect I realized that this was just me talking to myself. When god spoke, it was me talking to myself in a deeper voice and telling myself the things I wanted to hear. It’s funny to think about now. But it also opened my eyes to the fact that everyone possesses in themselves the power to heal and guide themselves through their own self reflection. YOU are your God and if your god is one that discriminates and hates gays and believes in other forms of intolerance, than that is a reflection of yourself, not gods will, but your own. In conclusion, that little girl is a misinformed cunt and her brother is an intolerant asshole for saying “I’m not going to dance to that song I don’t agree with it”. What doesn’t he agree with? People doing things that have no affect on his life whatsoever? If you don’t agree with the endeavors that someone else participates in then don’t do them. Believe it or not you can ACTUALLY mind your own business! She marveled at the beauty of the world all the while ignoring AIDS, Cancer, Ebola, Poverty, Famine, Rape, Murder and Child Molestation and all the other things her “all loving” god created

    • All of the above (AIDS, Cancer, Ebola, Poverty, Famine, Rape, Murder and Child Molestation) are a result of The Fall…by-products of Adam’s sin. God don’t create them, MAN did.

      • Purely an excuse by Christians to explain all the bad things in a world created by an omnipotent, ‘perfect’ being. Keep in mind we were supposedly created in God’s images, does our imperfection imply he too is imperfect?

        It infuriates me constantly to see devout Christians look upon everything good that happens in their life as a gift or a sign from God and everything bad that comes their way as some kind of test or similar ridiculous excuse.

        There is no God.

        • “It infuriates me constantly to see devout Christians
          look upon everything good that happens in their life as a gift or a sign from
          God and everything bad that comes their way as some kind of test or similar
          ridiculous excuse.”

          It infuriates me to see people like yourself jump on your high horse and
          castigate people for holding personal views and opinions which in absolutely no
          way affect you. Why do you honestly give a shit, mate?

          It’s the intolerance of both minority religious and minority non-religious
          people (like yourself) that will inevitably turn our world into a shitstorm of
          blind judgement. Why? Because bigoted arse holes will always be bigoted arse holes –
          regardless of who/what they believe in.

          I have literally no idea what I believe in but I certainly don’t care what anyone
          else does. Unless it is going to affect someone who does not want to
          be affected. The fundamental belief in both Religion and Science is based on
          what another man has told you. One seems more plausible for many, due to the fact
          that clever people have thrown their theories at us and we have chosen to
          believe them, regardless of the fact that most of us don’t have the
          intelligence to assimilate the science behind them.

          I hate this almost fashionable hatred of Christianity. The judgmental pricks
          who would quite happily vocalise their belittlement of another persons
          Christian beliefs, yet would shy away from expressing any similar feelings
          towards Islam in case they were perceived to be a racist. Pure
          cowardice.

          In my opinion, by openly declaring such a dogmatic view as anti-religion, you
          are in no way different to the scum who discriminate against people because of
          the colour of their skin.

          I feel that your beliefs should never become your identity, but they should never ever be the subject of humiliation.

      • So one human (Adam) did one little thing (eat an apple for God’s sake – oops, sorry!) and we all have to suffer for ever more? I don’t like your God very much! Come to think of it, wasn’t Jesus supposed to have died for our sins? If that’s so, why are we still suffering? Innocent children starving, dying of cancer etc. Answer me that!

        • * Two humans. Adam and Eve. Don’t usually join in with internet arguments but that was a really annoying omission- or don’t women count?

        • because we live on earth at the moment. Earth isnt heaven. earth has the influence of the devil. hence temptation and all the evil in this world. the time will come when jesus comes again and those who know, love and follow him will be saved from eternal separation from him (ie hell) christians chat on so much because we wouldnt want that to happen to anyone.. :

        • How would you sort out all the mess man has created, unless you kill everyone at once? Think about it an then tell me! If you want to see how God deals with it, you have to wait and see.

          By the way, Adam did not eat an apple; it was a fruit, none that you know of.

          God gave man free will and he promised man he would have to take the consequences for what he does. And so it happened.
          BUT, God opened a door to a second chance, despite the circumstances. Some people choose to take that chance, and others ridicule them for doing it, especially because they cannot explain everything, they just trust God and his promises.
          You may wait and see, but you may also do something while waiting. But, be sure, if you do something, others will ridicule you for doing it. That’s life.

          • I thought it was eve who ate the fruit…. written by men hahaha no doubt 😉

          • Of course, as it is recorded, both Adam and Eve ate it. Eve was fooled by the snake to eat, and Adam ate consciously doing wrong, joining his wife in her destiny.

          • Why can’t God just will away all the hatred and evil? He is powerful enough to create the world, us, Heaven, Hell and all this around us–maybe he can do one more miracle and see how we do living in absolute peace?

            You have a good argument but your first line just bothers me. Why does the solution have to be destroy all the things?

          • B/c the devil is in charge of this world. (wait, who’s satan)

          • Either you have a perfect world where every person CHOOSES to stay perfect (in our fallen condition we do not understand what this means), or you will have an imperfect world which results suffering and pain etc. God cannot stand having suffering and pain, so the present conditions cannot continue forever. Thus what is imperfect must be destroyed, wiped out, and replaced with things perfect. This is what is means to “will away all the hatred and evil”, as you put it.

            One might carelessly say that it is our free will that is the problem. God gave man free will and he will not take it back, he respects our free will, and now we see the consequences of our wrong choices (if we have our eyes and minds open). God gave man free will so that man can respond to God’s love by free choice, i.e. true love. God is not satisfied with fake love. Neither should we be.

            So it is up to us now to take a stand, to make a choice, either to trust God and aim for what is perfect, or to choose what is imperfect and thus inevitably to have our existence eventually ended. If we choose God we choose a relation with him where he takes the responsibility for whatever we have wronged and makes up for it. This is called forgiveness and restoration.

      • Then by allowing them to occur, your god is not omni benevolent, as most Xians claim.  A god who delivers infinite punishment for finite offences, and to the innocent is neither worth respecting nor worshiping.

        • SIn is sin, and Jesus died for your sins, if you accept that, you don’t get to live ur afterlife in Hell.

        • If you raise a child without letting the child at least sometimes suffer the negative consequences of bad behavior or wrong choices, the child will not learn the difference between good and bad.

          God does not need to punish man. Man i quite capable of killing himself if left to himself. But God does not leave man to himself. God communicates with man, just like a good parent would do to a wayward child. If man would listen and heed to God’s message (I am not talking about diluted so called Christendom), man would choose to enter a relation with God and find peace, and see how God resolves the mess we have caused.

          The “God thing” or true Christendom is not about punishment, it is about a relation, trusting someone who knows better and acts accordingly.

          • Your response if off topic and typical of most apologists who have either an inability to respond directly to a point, or who’d rather talk about what their relationship with their god is.  You can’t or won’t state that you worship god despite of, or because of the suffering he inficts upon the people you allege he loves.

          • God doesnt cause suffering! the devil does.. whilst we are still on earth it will never be perfect. sometimes he lets it happen but there are hundreads of reasons why.

          • I’ve heard it all now.  The devil causes suffering.  Then you’d have to admit that god is either powerless to prevent it, or not interested in preventing it, still not worthy of your worship.

          • God Allows the devil to do what he does. 🙂 I love worshipping God. btw

          • People cause suffering. I cause suffering. You cause suffering. The devil is for sure the originator of evil, but we are good at copying him.

            God is not Santa Claus. But even Santa does not give everything mean kids ask for. You cannot command God to relieve you from suffering, but you can ask. Many of us do not learn anything from life until we suffer the consequences of our own actions, the actions of others, or our collective errors. When evil rules, it is clarifying when you find people with God-given values who follow them. There is a stark contrast. Every person has a choice which group to side with. (This does not mean that one groups gets everything right and the other group gets everything wrong. It is not that simple. But the Bible reveals the issues more clearly. That is one reason why we need it.)

            If God would intervene and remove all suffering, he would have to remove us too, since we most often are the cause of it. Since he loves man he does not remove mankind until everyone knows for sure the difference between good and evil, and on that day he will remove pain, suffering, people who choose bad before good, and the devil. That day is called doomsday. Today there is still time to take a stand.

            God is worthy of worship, because he is smarter than we. He has patience to wait us out.

          • More claptrap.  If given the choice of allow a child be born with a deformity or fatal disease, regardless of the reason, or not allowing it to happen, I wouldn’t allow it, and neither would you.  According to theists, god does, and the reasons vary, but NONE of them are good enough to excuse it.  That’s why he is not worthy of our praise or respect.  If you do, you worship a vindictive thug.

          • I am not saying there are simple answers to everything. But I do know people born with deformities or fatal diseases, and THEY choose to worship God. They are happy to be alive, as long as life lasts. So who are you to judge if they are allowed to live or not? I am glad I do not need to take those decisions, at least I have not needed to so far. But if I find myself in a situation where I have to take tough decisions, I am glad I have the Bible to follow. God takes the responsibility for what human beings do when they follow his will. He is still in charge, regardless what people say about the outcome. He is responsible and he will follow everything up. He will make it up for those who suffer and pay those who cause suffering accordingly.

            So God is a vindictive thug? How about the people like you and me, who buy and use and dispose of questionable products made by people who work under slave-like conditions, and whose children are born with deformities and/or fatal diseases due to the poisonous effects of those products? For example. We are informed about the effects of the substances in our computers. Are we responsible?
            So, God gave man the freedom to reproduce. We do not always know if we carry genetic defects that will cause our offspring to get sick. And your argument is that God knows, and that makes him more responsible. Yes, I agree. And he says he is taking that responsibility. Regardless of what you think about it. Even though he did not cause the defects. He takes responsibility for OUR problems and mistakes. Meanwhile. My point is that he is doing that temporarily, and one day those who have not regretted and confessed their sins will have to take responsibility for them. This is one of the advantages of having a relation with God: He lifts the burden of guilt from me. He puts that burden on himself. That is another reason to worship him.

    • Poverty, Famine, Rape, Murder and Child Molestation?????????    All man made. More than 50% of your argument. Talk about pass the buck……

      Haha … you call someone intolerant in the same sentance as calling a 13 year old girl a C***

      SICK – Have some respect

      • They’re all man made, but who created man with the capacity to do those things?

        • God created us but he loves us so much he gave us free will to do good and bad. hence why man do terrible things-they are tempted. what would be the point in god making the world if everyone was always perfect, and had no choice but to love him. imagine if u were married to someone but they had no choice but to love you, wouldnt mean much to you would it?

          • What is the point of him making a world in which we aren’t perfect? Why must we suffer? Why not just have the Garden of Eden without the Tree of Knowledge? Wouldn’t you rather live in a world with no poverty, famine, rape, war, loathing hatred? Wasn’t man created in the image of God? Does he not want everyone to love him? Why wouldn’t he just show himself? Or make sure that no other religions or the knowledge of science emerged? He created this world and he has the capacity to do it. We wouldn’t know the difference. And if God can send his people to preach damnation to the unbelievers, why wouldn’t he just prove himself? There are as many questions to yours that could easily disprove your theories. 

          • Sorry, Guest, but I just cannot help repeating and broadening what has already been said in this thread of discussion.

            God made everything perfect, but man destroyed it. Do not blame God for imperfection. God gave man a free will because God wanted man to love him unconditionally. Man blew it. So God put his plan B into action. Plan B is called the Salvation Plan. The purpose is to restore the original conditions.

            If there would not have been any choice but to do right, our love to God would not be voluntary, in a sense. And we would not have understood true love, what it is, and how great a price it is worth.

            God does show himself, and he does it in ways that we can understand. But most people are “blind” and want to put themselves before everything else. Therefore they do not detect what God shows and what God says.

            When God clears out all the mess we have caused, he will have people who choose him despite all, and who love him through all. That love means more to God than all the temporary pain and suffering that we all are experiencing now. And many, many people think the same; they are grateful that despite all the bad things they experience, they still trust God.

            If you want God to reveal himself to you, ask him for it, but do not dictate for God how he should do it. Let him convince you the very best way HE knows how to do it. Be open minded and wait upon his response. You will be overwhelmed.

    • Very interesting, Scott. I still wonder if that “voice inside” has an origin in something or somewhere beyond me, though. Don’t you?

      • If anything, you could probably guess that it’s the non-dominant hemisphere of your brain.

        Bear with me please.  You know that when you are operating a sock puppet, you don’t get that sense of “other” from your puppet.  You know that it is you.

        In a dream, you can hallucinate people and they will appear real.  You may not know what they will say next.  This is only possible because the brain can simulate “other” by its non-dominant side.  Obviously in people who have not undergone brain-splitting surgery, there is still a connection (the corpus callosum etc).But in cases where spirits REEEEALLLY DO seem like “Other”… your brain can do that on it’s own :/

        • And the other way around: People are told that smoking kills you (slowly), drugs destroy you, if you use weapons against others, their weapons may kill you, etc., yet people acts as if those voices telling those things are not real or are not telling the truth. “I know better. I do as I please. The bad consequences will not happen to me.” With eyes closed they fall into the pit they have been warned of.

          And even worse: My wrongdoings can cause unfortunate effects on my grandchildren, because of my ignorance or egotism. Is my grandchild guilty for that? No, but I am.

          And when it happens, my grandchild may blame God for it, though I was the one to blame.

          Man is blind. Man thinks he knows best. Man rarely pauses to think.

    • Awesome. Well said.

  10. When I was a christian I used to pray and talk to god. I’d have conversations with him. It’s kind of funny but I was horribly upset when John Candy died. I remember crying and praying to God saying why did he have to take him off this planet haha! At the time I was a wreck, but when I prayed to god he told me that he was fine and in fact happier in heaven and that everything was going to be ok. In retrospect I realized that this was just me talking to myself. When god spoke, it was me talking to myself in a deeper voice and telling myself the things I wanted to hear. It’s funny to think about now. But it also opened my eyes to the fact that everyone possesses in themselves the power to heal and guide themselves through their own self reflection. YOU are your God and if your god is one that discriminates and hates gays and believes in other forms of intolerance, than that is a reflection of yourself, not gods will, but your own. In conclusion, that little girl is a misinformed cunt and her brother is an intolerant asshole for saying “I’m not going to dance to that song I don’t agree with it”. What doesn’t he agree with? People doing things that have no affect on his life whatsoever? If you don’t agree with the endeavors that someone else participates in then don’t do them. Believe it or not you can ACTUALLY mind your own business! She marveled at the beauty of the world all the while ignoring AIDS, Cancer, Ebola, Poverty, Famine, Rape, Murder and Child Molestation and all the other things her “all loving” god created

  11. When I was a christian I used to pray and talk to god. I’d have conversations with him. It’s kind of funny but I was horribly upset when John Candy died. I remember crying and praying to God saying why did he have to take him off this planet haha! At the time I was a wreck, but when I prayed to god he told me that he was fine and in fact happier in heaven and that everything was going to be ok. In retrospect I realized that this was just me talking to myself. When god spoke, it was me talking to myself in a deeper voice and telling myself the things I wanted to hear. It’s funny to think about now. But it also opened my eyes to the fact that everyone possesses in themselves the power to heal and guide themselves through their own self reflection. YOU are your God and if your god is one that discriminates and hates gays and believes in other forms of intolerance, than that is a reflection of yourself, not gods will, but your own. In conclusion, that little girl is a misinformed cunt and her brother is an intolerant asshole for saying “I’m not going to dance to that song I don’t agree with it”. What doesn’t he agree with? People doing things that have no affect on his life whatsoever? If you don’t agree with the endeavors that someone else participates in then don’t do them. Believe it or not you can ACTUALLY mind your own business! She marveled at the beauty of the world all the while ignoring AIDS, Cancer, Ebola, Poverty, Famine, Rape, Murder and Child Molestation and all the other things her “all loving” god created

  12. When I was a christian I used to pray and talk to god. I’d have conversations with him. It’s kind of funny but I was horribly upset when John Candy died. I remember crying and praying to God saying why did he have to take him off this planet haha! At the time I was a wreck, but when I prayed to god he told me that he was fine and in fact happier in heaven and that everything was going to be ok. In retrospect I realized that this was just me talking to myself. When god spoke, it was me talking to myself in a deeper voice and telling myself the things I wanted to hear. It’s funny to think about now. But it also opened my eyes to the fact that everyone possesses in themselves the power to heal and guide themselves through their own self reflection. YOU are your God and if your god is one that discriminates and hates gays and believes in other forms of intolerance, than that is a reflection of yourself, not gods will, but your own. In conclusion, that little girl is a misinformed cunt and her brother is an intolerant asshole for saying “I’m not going to dance to that song I don’t agree with it”. What doesn’t he agree with? People doing things that have no affect on his life whatsoever? If you don’t agree with the endeavors that someone else participates in then don’t do them. Believe it or not you can ACTUALLY mind your own business! She marveled at the beauty of the world all the while ignoring AIDS, Cancer, Ebola, Poverty, Famine, Rape, Murder and Child Molestation and all the other things her “all loving” god created

  13. I think her parents beat her.

  14. I think her parents beat her.

  15. soooo… when is the brother coming out?

  16. i feel so, so, so sorry for this girl.

  17. I would like to come back to this family in 20 years and see where Deborah and her siblings are and how they think/feel about Christianity.

  18. I hope the family will be as compassionate as Jesus was when they realize their eldest son is homosexual.

  19. “Thou shalt not kill” includes animals, friends.

  20. This is so much less extreme than American evangelicals. I am not a christian but I admire this girl’s confidence and ability to discuss her beliefs in a calm manner (even if she may seem closed minded). In comparison to the evangelicals on my college campus she is open-minded and thoughtful.

  21. “I didn’t see and explosion that created this”
    WELL DUH an explosion doesn’t just stay there suspended in time…
    creationists are retarded honestly

  22. As much as it’s fun to poke fun at people who take religion to extremes, you have to give the parents a lot of credit to actually teach the children to an actual university level considering some parents now send their children to school without being toilet trained. plus it’s lovely to see how bonded the children are.

  23. I watched this documentary with mixed feelings, quite honestly. I was raised in a fundamentalist christian household very similar to her’s but maybe not quite as strict. So I understand the mindset completely. She has the simplistic and naive mindset common in Christian fundamentalism. It views the world in a very black and white, good vs evil sense. On the positive side, I did like and do appreciate the close family ties in Christian families. I also can appreciate her boldness and courage with which she shares her convictions. On the negative side, the obsession with hellfire and brimstone was sad to watch and I really dislike the simplistic “Good person test” which characterizes a lot of christian witnessing today and  which was originally invented by Ray Comfort.  Overall I did like the documentary, though. 

  24. fake documentary

  25. I don’t know if anyone has said this, but I give this girl so many ups for being so confident. I would kill for her confidence (not literally, because I would go to hell for eternity as she states), but to be that confident at that young of an age. I wouldn’t ask to be so confident in something so controversial, but damn, that girl has guts! I just feel bad if and when she begins to question her faith.

    • She seems self confident because she’s never been exposed to views that differ from her parents. In a way, her confidence is a sign or immaturity. I’d rather my child be a bit humble and respect the beliefs and viewpoints of others. Why would you feel bad if she questions her faith? If she questions and remains a Christian, her faith will be stronger. Asking questions and looking for your own answers is a step toward adulthood

    • Within the first 30 seconds of the documentary she imposes her Christian values on the interviewer.  She is bigoted, ignorant, and a fundamentalist.  Her blind faith in a supernatural omnipotent Caucasian male who lives in the sky is borderline psychotic.  I wouldn’t go so far as to say I’m an antitheist as that wouldn’t be very liberal of me, but secularism and the separation between God(s) and state should not be ignored.

  26. Hey, guess what everybody?
    You DON’T KNOW. You CAN’T know. Stop acting like you know exactly what you’re talking about, you don’t. You don’t know whether or not god or gods exist, you don’t know if there’s an afterlife, and whatever else you’ve been internet-yelling about.
    It’s the responsibility of parents to raise their children to be working members of society, yet they have the right to do it how they please. You really just have to let them live their lives and hope they let you live yours. She’s living her life in her way, whether you like it or not, so move on.

  27. I see them happily pigging out on tortured animal flesh (KFC), from a multinational that is renowned for its appalling treatment of animals. If God did create the earth, then he/she would be fairly annoyed at the way they treat the planet and the animals the reside on it. Oh but wait, thats not in the bible, so it doesnt count…

  28. I see them happily pigging out on tortured animal flesh (KFC), from a multinational that is renowned for its appalling treatment of animals. If God did create the earth, then he/she would be fairly annoyed at the way they treat the planet and the animals the reside on it. Oh but wait, thats not in the bible, so it doesnt count…

  29. I see them happily pigging out on tortured animal flesh (KFC), from a multinational that is renowned for its appalling treatment of animals. If God did create the earth, then he/she would be fairly annoyed at the way they treat the planet and the animals the reside on it. Oh but wait, thats not in the bible, so it doesnt count…

  30. ”we where going to have two children then do the lords work, once we had two, we thought lets let god decide how many children we should have lets let him decide when to close the whome”…

    that is evil,

  31. Where is the rest of the documentary? I could only watch the first part which is 5:05 minutes.

  32. Wow Mrblue, could you be more hateful, more intolerant, more damning? You say that Christianity (odd you chose just this one religion, but whatever, I understand that is the topic of this documentary) is this horrible, controlling, hateful religion. But what are you being? And who are you to determine what is right and wrong in the world? You became antitheist because you didn’t want to be controlled, didn’t want to be told what was wrong and right, but this is exact attitude that you are having towards Christians. You are saying they are wrong. They shouldn’t be allowed to do this, parents should be allowed to do that (which is pretty controlling if you ask me). You are the moral compass of the universe? I don’t understand how you cannot see your utter hypocrisy in your post. You are saying that Christians shouldn’t have the freedom to practice their religion, whether it’s based on the Bible or based on some skewed up version of it. I do hope you believe and think the same about the Islam faith or the Jewish faith. Otherwise you are a clear victim of American post-modernism: everything is right if you feel it’s right… except Christianity.

    Oh. I’d also like to point out that one documentary about an impressionable 13 year old girl does not describe every Christian and every Christian family. You should really learn to be more tolerant of religions and people in general. I haven’t read a more hateful thing in a long time.

    • Illstillglow, I’ll like to address your comments in full because a lot of your criticisms
      are quite misleading.

      “And who are you to determine what is right and wrong in the world? ”
      No one does, that’s exactly the point. The best decisions concerning our reality are made with reason and evidence in mind but that’s not the case in such a world rampant with religious insecurity. Although morals are relative, theists do not seem to think so. They impose their religion unto other people and make it their mission to spread such messages and acts of intolerance whenever they may go. They lobby for certain laws and impose restrictions on my freedom just because X line in Y scripture says so. This in itself is immoral and a line that most atheists do not cross. Even Dawkins, a renowned militant atheist, has never in his life, stated that religion should be outrightly banned and extinguished from the face of the Earth. Although this is clearly a reality he would like to see, his acknowledgement of others’ freedoms prevent him from saying so. This is the line, atheists, agnostics and the irreligious do not cross but for religion to exist and maintain it’s influence, they must cross this line over and over again until it’s unrecognizable (it’s already blurred beyond recognition, just look at the world we have today). So while you preach for the sanctity your religion and accuse others for being intolerant, I’ll like to offer the same gesture and ask that you be tolerant of our beliefs as well. 

      “post-modernism”
      Post-Modernism is pretty nihilistic, your definition is quite off to say the least.

      • themonistary, you make some very good points and are well spoken, thank you.

        What is difficult throughout many of these posts is that we are making very broad generalizations about many different types of groups of people. There are theists who are condemning. There are Christians who are condemning. There are theists who are loving and moral as well as theists who are not. The same is found within every societal group. Unfortunately there are some in all groups that do cross the line of which you speak. What is sad is that the condemning, rude and name calling people are the ones from whom we most often hear. Mrblue was rude but we must not judge all those like him as being rude. There are also many rude Christians from whom we’ve heard. Again, we must not judge all Christians as being the same. Some atheists, agnostics etc are tolerant of the beliefs of others, some are very hostile. The same is true of Christians. My hope is that, no matter what we believe, we will go beyond being tolerant of others and, instead, appreciate and value one another.

        General video comments:
        This young girl may lack tact (yes, and understatement) but I am not sure why people here are upset with her for expressing her opinion and her heart – that is often the basis of conversation and the people at the parties etc had the opportunity to express their opinions as well. They also could have expressed that they did not want to discuss religion with her. Perhaps we need to take responsibility for what we will or will not talk about individually. We do not need to be rude but we can, and should, say that we do not want to talk with someone about something and end the conversation. We have that right, ability and responsibility no matter what we believe. Perhaps, by so doing, we could end some of the animosity that we often perpetuate. Religious people need to accept when someone says they do not want to talk in that area and irreligious people need to do the same. We can all respect one another and let go of the animosity.

    • RE: Illstillglow

      Honestly the fact that you spent that much time defending your chosen religion helps to make the case in point.

      If you were to do any sort of research on the history of your church, let alone all organized religion you might gain new perspective.

      I would highly recommend reading “Gods of Eden” by William Bramley if you’re so inclined to know any truth about the origins of your so called “Faith”.

      You are a slave, whether you can see the bars or not, your mind has been indentured.

    • That’s a fine post Illstillglow!

       Yep it seems that the ultra liberals are liberal towards everything except the conservatives these days. 

  33. Wow Mrblue, could you be more hateful, more intolerant, more damning? You say that Christianity (odd you chose just this one religion, but whatever, I understand that is the topic of this documentary) is this horrible, controlling, hateful religion. But what are you being? And who are you to determine what is right and wrong in the world? You became antitheist because you didn’t want to be controlled, didn’t want to be told what was wrong and right, but this is exact attitude that you are having towards Christians. You are saying they are wrong. They shouldn’t be allowed to do this, parents should be allowed to do that (which is pretty controlling if you ask me). You are the moral compass of the universe? I don’t understand how you cannot see your utter hypocrisy in your post. You are saying that Christians shouldn’t have the freedom to practice their religion, whether it’s based on the Bible or based on some skewed up version of it. I do hope you believe and think the same about the Islam faith or the Jewish faith. Otherwise you are a clear victim of American post-modernism: everything is right if you feel it’s right… except Christianity.

    Oh. I’d also like to point out that one documentary about an impressionable 13 year old girl does not describe every Christian and every Christian family. You should really learn to be more tolerant of religions and people in general. I haven’t read a more hateful thing in a long time.

  34. What is wrong with this girl????? No, no , what is wrong with you? yes YOU! Yeah she’s a little too  stubborn in her views, but aren’t we all at that age. I am sure she will be more open to discuss later in life, but I doubt that her views would change radically. If you are saying she’s wrong that:
       she does not like clubs
       she does not like drinking
       she does not like people dressing inappropriately
       she does not like loud music, britney spears or popular music
     
     ….what are you saying?
    I would really think  before deciding who’s more in need of help , we – conformists or her. She is brave. She’s an insipiration.

  35. I used to be like her. I was never homeschooled, I went to public and catholic schools and somehow at the age of 16 it all faded away and I had a lot of things shape who I am today at 23 and what I believe.

    I believe in SOMEthing out there, although I haven’t quite decided what or who that is. Things change with time and being exposed to different things and although I commend her for keeping her faith, I do think it will quite possibly change and become altered.

     

  36.  This is a form of child abuse.

  37.  This is a form of child abuse.

  38. It was interesting and a bit sad at the same time. in my opinion, she spoke about “hell” and people’s sins more than I would have liked.

    I’ve known that I’ve been gay since I was around 4 or 5 years old, which is way
    before puberty.
    I wasn’t subjected to an environment that made me like
    that, I was created by God that way…

    When her brother refused to dance to a song “I kissed a girl” because the lyrics refer to a girl kissing another girl it made me feel frustrated. In his eyes and in his entire family’s eyes, that’s probably a sin. When people who are born homosexual are fed ideals and brainwashed into thinking that it’s an abomination, some LGBT’s go so far as to kill themselves.

    As soon as I heard him say that, in my eyes, he lost credibility.

    I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. GOD is absolute perfection, he doesn’t make mistakes. So if what you’re preaching isn’t about “LOVE”, then it’s not about “GOD”.  

  39. It was interesting and a bit sad at the same time. in my opinion, she spoke about “hell” and people’s sins more than I would have liked.

    I’ve known that I’ve been gay since I was around 4 or 5 years old, which is way
    before puberty.
    I wasn’t subjected to an environment that made me like
    that, I was created by God that way…

    When her brother refused to dance to a song “I kissed a girl” because the lyrics refer to a girl kissing another girl it made me feel frustrated. In his eyes and in his entire family’s eyes, that’s probably a sin. When people who are born homosexual are fed ideals and brainwashed into thinking that it’s an abomination, some LGBT’s go so far as to kill themselves.

    As soon as I heard him say that, in my eyes, he lost credibility.

    I’ve said it once and I’ll say it again. GOD is absolute perfection, he doesn’t make mistakes. So if what you’re preaching isn’t about “LOVE”, then it’s not about “GOD”.  

  40.  I’m really happy to see a girl of this age thinking like that.
    I think she is on the right track and God is guiding her.
    But I believe that nobody has the power to judge or even say: “you’re going to hell because you lied, or did this or that”. So, we should try to focus on the positive side and do things that’s gonna make us better and help the world around us. I read the bible, I believe in Jesus but I committed a lot of sins in my life and I still trying to be a better person, get close to God and make a positive difference in this world. The evil is around but let’s leave the hell aside and think about heaven.

    • Maybe it`s satan that guides her? Who knows? Do you? Maybe he`s tricking us into a false light or something like it?

  41.  What a slightly depressing documentary. Interesting, but depressing.

  42.  What a slightly depressing documentary. Interesting, but depressing.

  43.  Aw, Matthew’s such a poppet!

  44.  Aw, Matthew’s such a poppet!

  45. Too many of you are haters. There is nothing wrong with this girl. She is 13 years old and appears more intelligent than most girls her age. She has good morals and as “brainwashed” as they seem, she is confident in herself, courageous enough to express her beliefs to anyone, does not fear negative comments, has good intentions behind her preaching, enjoys her simple life though isolated from society, stays close with her family and believes in a Supreme Being. Just because someone is religious, it does not make them brainwashed, ignorant or naive. Science will never disprove God, heaven or hell. In fact there are too many things science has not been able to prove. It’s undeniable that science governs the laws of the universe but if you are spiritual than science can simply be a worldly concept given to man to understand and advance his environment but that’s the extent of science. To each his own belief. If you haven’t actively attempted to seek knowledge about the spiritual world, as crazy as it may sound, you are just as ignorant as the “believers” whom you claim are.

  46. And on the first day Man created God…. these words scribbled upon my news feed brought upon the destruction of my Creationism beliefs

    It is extremely sad to see this girl having the short end of the stick by being (i know this is a little yeah…kind of term) Brainwashed BEFORE having a chance to grasp the true concept of reality behind the walls of the Church and Religion in General…

    But i always have believed that if someone needs motivation the answer is “You will be Saved by God!” or “Do this or Burn in Hell” as violent as this is…it’s how some people go on living in everyday life hiding from the “Wrath of God” by going out of a normal routine to please a Entity in the sky….thats just how it is i guess…..i’m 16 btw so if someone would add some insight in this endless debate please do so i love FOOD FOR THE BRAIN 🙂

  47. And on the first day Man created God…. these words scribbled upon my news feed brought upon the destruction of my Creationism beliefs

    It is extremely sad to see this girl having the short end of the stick by being (i know this is a little yeah…kind of term) Brainwashed BEFORE having a chance to grasp the true concept of reality behind the walls of the Church and Religion in General…

    But i always have believed that if someone needs motivation the answer is “You will be Saved by God!” or “Do this or Burn in Hell” as violent as this is…it’s how some people go on living in everyday life hiding from the “Wrath of God” by going out of a normal routine to please a Entity in the sky….thats just how it is i guess…..i’m 16 btw so if someone would add some insight in this endless debate please do so i love FOOD FOR THE BRAIN 🙂

  48. And on the first day Man created God…. these words scribbled upon my news feed brought upon the destruction of my Creationism beliefs

    It is extremely sad to see this girl having the short end of the stick by being (i know this is a little yeah…kind of term) Brainwashed BEFORE having a chance to grasp the true concept of reality behind the walls of the Church and Religion in General…

    But i always have believed that if someone needs motivation the answer is “You will be Saved by God!” or “Do this or Burn in Hell” as violent as this is…it’s how some people go on living in everyday life hiding from the “Wrath of God” by going out of a normal routine to please a Entity in the sky….thats just how it is i guess…..i’m 16 btw so if someone would add some insight in this endless debate please do so i love FOOD FOR THE BRAIN 🙂

  49. I liked it shes such a kind hearted person.

    •  Warning – the above is a fake comment used to mask a link to a fraudulent website .. they take payment but do not deliver any service.

  50. I hope that she eventually gets away from her brainwashing parents & gets out into the real world & finds out that they have been lying to her all of here life & comes to despise them for it. His parents are going to be really pissed off when he finally come out & tells them that he’s gay.

Load More Comments