Shoah

  • More Options

VN:F [1.9.16_1159]
Rating: 5.9/10 based on 43 votes cast.
Is This Documentary Broken?
(Click Here To Let Us Know)

Claude Lanzmann directed this 9 and a half hour documentary about the Holocaust without using a single frame of archive footage.

He interviews survivors, witnesses, and ex-Nazis (whom he had to film secretly since though only agreed to be interviewed by audio). His style of interviewing by asking for the most minute details is effective at adding up these details to give a horrifying portrait of the events of Nazi genocide.

He also shows, or rather lets some of his subjects themselves show, that the anti-Semitism that caused 6 million Jews to die in the Holocaust is still alive and well in many people that still live in Germany, Poland, and elsewhere.

Sometimes the English subtitles are missing. This happens when the interpreter is translating one language into the other, which then ends with english subtitles.

Related Documentaries

From The Web

  • Johnny

    Just a heads up, if you are looking for facts and real information about the Holocaust this is the worst place to look for them as it is literally 9 and a half hours of pure ‘hear-say’, emotion stirring “shock” propaganda.

    As Mr. Lanzmann once admitted there were no real witnesses of these exterminations as they were all exterminated themselves and the ‘witnesses’ he interviewed are working off rumors and second-hand conjecture and didn’t actually ‘witness’ anything themselves. So 9 1/2 hours of non-witnessing witnesses and invisible Nazi voices(paid well) that can’t be authenticated in any way makes a very compelling story devoid of any actual evidence.

    Then again I guess it is necessary since the ‘archive footage’ this documentary doesn’t touch at all doesn’t actually exist for the alleged mass-exterminations, hence why they don’t(can’t) touch it.

    There is plenty of archive footage of the piles of bodies killed by disease and starvation that the Allies found when they liberated the camps but since Allied military pathologists never found a single case of poisoning/gassing among any of those bodies they offer ZERO EVIDENCE of purposeful mass-exterminations.

    People forget that these camps were constantly fighting Typhus and other disease epidemics(side-effect of massive destruction and war across a continent) and after the Allies severed the German supply lines and cut off food and medical supplies to most of the camps things were bound to get horrific at the camps no matter what the Nazi’s did.

    The camps were not club-med resorts and the Holocaust was a period of great suffering for millions of people over what boils down to nothing more than typical political bullshit, but people who think that the mass extermination ‘death factory’ stories are based on actual evidence need to do some better research into the matter and look beyond ‘eye witnesses’ and coerced ‘Nazi confessions’.

    And important questions people should ask are what did the ‘death factories’ actually look like and how were they designed?

    If they did they might realize that the Nazi’s allegedly operated so called “assembly lines of death” WITHOUT any actual assembly lines in place to facilitate them.

    I also find it ironic that the claim is that many or most of the ‘death factory’ victims died in diesel carbon-monoxide gas chambers, even though diesel engines produce very little carbon-monoxide and the Nazi’s had a huge industry in wood-gas and coal-gas technology which produces massive carbon-monoxide which would have been literally thousands of times more efficient for their purposes.

    There is a reason diesel engines are used in mining and construction and other enclosed spaces and it’s not because of it’s exhausts’ awesome killing power.

    But I guess that’s just because as everyone knows the Germans are the least efficient people in the world so they didn’t think to be smart…

    Then again last I heard the official view was that all the claims of diesel engines were mistaken and they were actually gasoline engines burning diesel fuel to commit mass-murder… now if anyone doesn’t find that funny I highly recommend putting diesel fuel in your gasoline spark ignition engine and seeing how that works for you…

    Everyone thinks diesel exhaust is so bad cause it’s usually dark and stinks like something nasty but the reason it is so dark and stinks so bad is because it uses a full combustion cycle that burns off most of the off-gases(like carbon-monoxide) that the initial combustion stages produce, whereas a gasoline spark ignition engine operates more quickly and only uses part of the cycle and exhausts most of the off-gases produced before they can be burnt off.

    I have a feeling eventually the ‘diesel’ part of the story will be dropped completely and we’ll be left with just ‘gasoline engines’ committing mass-murder which will be more believable.

    All the massive holes in the Operation Reinhardt ‘death camps’ stories should be so blatantly obvious that the fact very few people actually question the stories at all really puts into perspective just how little critical thinking most people give the issue.

    I’ve barely touched on any of the main issues with this post but it’s already long and controversial enough for now I think and I’ll just leave off with one of my favorite quotes which is extremely relevant here to ponder:

    “The only thing that interferes with my learning is my education.” ~ Albert Einstein

    (And yes, I’m well aware Einstein fled Germany and the Nazi’s and some people may shit a brick for me quoting him here but the man’s genius[commonsense in this case] is superior to any political correctness crap)

    • simon

      so i guess you havent seen the movie, and were quite happy to be able post your ranting here. get a life.

      • Johnny

        Address one point I make at least Mr Troll, please?

        This propaganda movie was made in the 1980’s and I unfortunately watched it many times over the years and swallowed it whole as you apparently have as well before deciding to use my brain and actually review the evidence instead of the hear-say about the evidence.

        From there it doesn’t take very long to go all the way to “denier” cause the lack of real evidence is truly shocking.

        But revisionists only “deny” the purposeful mass-extermination ‘death camp’ myths for which little evidence exists, the Shoah being a ‘great tragedy’ covers the whole damn war pretty much so there is no denial of it existing in general or of the concentration camps or hostile treatment of Jews, communists or any other ‘enemy of the Reich’ having occurred more specifically.

        And many of the claims made in the specific film aren’t even supported by the official Holocaust scholars anymore.

        So yeah this film isn’t worth watching and if I could back in time and stop myself from wasting my time with it on multiple occasions I would gladly do so.

        And yes, I am quite happy to have DocHeaven and the freedom of speech to ‘post my rantings’ here.

        Childish people like you react violently very often to these types of discussions face-to-face, so the internet is the best place for them.

        • fuckgreece

          lookie lookie talking about Trolling the web

        • Dave G

          please quote sorces so they can be verified

        • Dave G

          please quote sorces so they can be verified

    • Lauren

      My question to you is what do you believe happened to the 3.3 million jews living in Poland before 1939? There were 350 000 survivors after the war (including those who later emigrated to Palestine), and you say 800 000 died of disease. Where did the other 2 million – to err on the side of caution – go?

  • Johnny

    Just as a matter of fairness I should say that there are many Holocaust scholars or “academics” out there that have far more detailed accounts of the Holocaust ‘death camps’ than this film which actually at least loosely base their claims on real evidence and address real issues of science anmd engineering(design and construction) and such rather than pure unverified conjecture.

    Interested parties should look for that material and not waste their time with this propaganda in my opinion.

    And actually many of those official Holocaust historians have been instrumental in assisting the revisionists to shed many of the most ludicrous Holocaust myths from the official history already, such as the whole ‘Jew fat soap’, ‘Jew skin lampshade’ and ‘Jew hair mattresses for Nazi women’ fabrications.

    That’s not to say they shouldn’t be ashamed of themselves for some of the myths they still support and in some cases lend false scientific credibility to though.

    And while most “academics” do not use the now officially defunct ‘6 million Jews’ death toll figure since the Auschwitz toll was officially reduced by almost 75%(approx. -3,000,000 victims) they still have a bad habit of fully and uncritically supporting films/documentaries, books or articles and other unscientific propaganda that claims the 6 million figure as a verified fact.

    So this isn’t a simple ‘black and white’ issue as it is often portrayed, I honestly believe that many of the official “academics” would be far more open to revisionist discussions if not for the fact being open to such things truly does put their careers in jeopardy.

    But again, for real information they are far better sources than emotional propaganda films like this.

  • Gabriel

    Sometimes there are not captions because the film maker did not want us to know the truth;

    I speak both French, German and American.

    -so trust me. And listen to me.

    • Jonny

      What language is American?

      • anna

        “Jonny”, American is a language, similar to English, yet with many differences. So no need to ask such a snotty question. As for the rest of your posts…meh. Not really worth the effort.

        • Johnny

          Note: That ‘Jonny’ is not the same as this ‘Johnny’, and I am the author of the rest of the posts here, not him.

        • CFoss

          Anna:
          To say “American” is a language is absolutely absurd as well as ignorant. It is comparable to saying “Canadian” is a language. These are called dialects/slangs ( ie Creole) within a region which may not transcend throughout a state/province. An intellect would labell this a part of culture whithin a jurisdtictation.
          The keyword/language you are looking for would be labelled as ENGLISH; American language, infact does not exists. There is no exception to this. Lucky for you the internet holds a wealth of knowledge for free. Perhaps the next time you write a statement with such conviction you may do some research? Your comment is appreciated as your cocky ignorance has productively placed a smile on my face.
          NOTE: please let me know if you do not understand this message as I will do my best to “translate” it to the “American” language for you.

          • CFoss

            *** jurisdiction (apologies).
            “There is nothing more frightful than ignorance in action.” Now that this has been sorted out, we will focus on this doc and the plight which has been displayed. Anna, enlighten others with your “Amrican” in accordance with whay you have learned today. I just cannot stop smiling at your expence. hah thanks for comin out.

        • Manc.

          “American is a language”

          Funniest thing I’ve read all day.

        • Jonny

          “As for the rest of your posts…meh. Not really worth the effort.”

          This is my second post, however there have been plenty of other posts by Johnny, whereas I’m Jonny … I guess the letter “H” is not that common in the ‘American language.’

  • Gilmour73

    I have to say I read the comments for this video and was appalled. I cannot believe that this guy got POSITIVE ratings for basically denying the Holocaust. While I will grant that the poster certainly does make some valid points (although I have NEVER heard of anyone saying that the gas chambers at Auschwitz were powered by CO2, it is fairly common knowledge that it was Zyklon B), the rhetoric he uses is just sickening. To say they there are no witnesses to the exterminations is utter garbage.

    The systematic extermination of the so called untermensch is well documented fact. There are plenty of survivors of the camps who witnessed the executions, the Einsatzgruppen for example – prisoners who were forced to clear the bodies from the chambers. I highly suggest that instead of taking a revisionist point of view for the sake of taking it, you actually take the time to learn what revisionism actually is. Following that, do some proper research into the Holocaust. Then you can come back and preach about how the systematic execution of an entire people never really happened, that it was the lack of supplies that hindered the German’s very “humane” treatment of the people in the concentration camps, and the death camps in Poland.

    • Johnny

      “(although I have NEVER heard of anyone saying that the gas chambers at Auschwitz were powered by CO2, it is fairly common knowledge that it was Zyklon B)”

      You still haven’t heard anyone say that, you should learn to read.

      Auschwitz is one of many ‘death camps’ and while Zyklon B was allegedly the main system used there at other camps carbon-monoxide poisoning by ‘diesel gas chambers’ was the primary system allegedly used. At least a 1/3 of the alleged ‘death camp’ victims died from the ‘diesel gas chambers’ according to the official view.

      “To say they there are no witnesses to the exterminations is utter garbage.”

      No, that would be the rest of your post that is garbage as I didn’t claim there were no witnesses, Claude Lanzmann the director of this film claimed that. I agree with him on there being no witnesses of actual mass-murders, not for the same reasons he stated though.

      There are many witnesses to the Holocaust but alleged witnesses of the mass-murders are few are far between and most of their stories contradict the physical evidence and aren’t worth giving any credibility to.

      Physical evidence doesn’t lie, people do.

      If you want to ignore the physical evidence(or lack thereof) and believe the small number of people allegedly speaking for millions of murdered souls then be my guest.

      I don’t know why you find me wanting some physical evidence to support such a massive claim to be appalling, well I do but I just don’t understand it.

      If the Holocaust mass-murders are real then looking for more evidence should support the stories.

    • Johnny

      Good job with ignoring 99% of my post and building a half-decent strawman though, it’s better than the “fucking Jew hater!!!!” responses.

      • Sylvia

        “But revisionists only “deny” the purposeful mass-extermination ‘death camp’ myths for which little evidence exists”

        I am afraid you got it very wrong, we got plenty of witness reports of mass murders and also photographic evidence of the same here in Berlin.
        In my family there still exist documentation and photographs of healthy prisoners at camps being walked to the gas chambers.
        You cannot find ‘evidence’ of the mass extermination camps anymore – what exactly are you looking for?
        Why don’t you come to Berlin and give a speech? I am sure you would be very welcomed, your fantasies are not new to us after all.
        And should you never reappear again, well then you were just a myth after all.

        • Johnny

          People standing in lines is evidence of mass-murder?

          All I have seen in pictures of people standing in lines for ‘showers’, combined with the non-evidenced allegations of ‘witnesses’ that those ‘showers’ were actually gas chambers of mass-murder.

          You seem to have trouble understanding what actual physical evidence is.

          An example – claims that the Krema at Auschwitz were used as gas chambers on a daily basis should leave behind Zyklon B(hydrocyanic acid) residue in significant amounts.

          Forensic evidence shows residue levels in the ‘gas chambers’ to be the same as all the other non-gas chamber buildings in the camp, the traces being results of occasional fumigation.

          Forensic evidence shows very high amounts of residue in and around the actual delousing gas chambers also used on a regular basis at the camp, including on exterior walls exposed to all the elements for over half a century.

          If Zyklon B was used even on a semi-regular basis in those alleged ‘gas chambers’ there should be signs of it, signs which can’t be removed by cleaning or natural weathering as some like to claim.

          Science is a real bitch for the mass-murder stories, better to stick to the ‘witnesses’ and their extremely emotional tales that tug at your heart.

          Or are you going to tell me next that a pile of shoes at Auschwitz is enough proof of mass-murder, or the ‘gas shelter’ turned ‘gas chamber’ turned ‘gas shelter’ that the Soviets “reconstructed” after the war as a ‘gas chamber’ is proof?

          Up to 11 million people were massacred and the best evidence we have is a small number of ‘eye-witnesses’ and many ‘second-hand’ witnesses combined with a few photo’s that don’t show anything malicious themselves?

          I’ve seen pictures of all the 9/11 hijackers too, that doesn’t mean the story those pictures are used to tell is true.

          • Johnny

            To add to that, perhaps you could explain to me why almost all of the alleged ‘death camps’ which were built supposedly for the exclusive purpose of murdering their inmates also contained delousing facilities meant to keep the inmates alive?

            I guess the Nazi’s hated them so much they devoted significant resources to keeping them alive before devoting even more resources(Zyklon B, wood/gas for cremation, etc.) killing them just to spite them, right?

            Here’s a fun task – try to figure out how much wood, coke and/or other fuels they would have used burning up to 11 million bodies and then try to figure out where and how they got it all.

            Contrary to what some of the witnesses claim science says it is not possible to use bodies made of mostly water as “kindling” to burn other bodies, let alone to burn thousands of bodies to ash in minutes as some of the witnesses claim.

            But hey, alleged witnesses trump science and evidence, right?

          • Sylvia

            Amazingly not one of the Nazis on trial in Nuremberg used your kind of ‘arguments’ to get off – possibly because they would have been laughed out of the room?

            How many inmates were actually de-loused? All of them. Once.

            “Killing them to spite them?” what are you on? You seem to want evidence and when you get it you still don’t believe it.
            Creationist by any chance?

          • Johnny

            Well I don’t have links handy to find the exact testimonies right now so I will digress for the moment on that, but any claim that their ‘confessions’ didn’t contain obvious lies is verging on delusional.

            I know for a fact at least two confessions involved tales of ‘blood geysers’ shooting out of the ground from bodies beneath, mountains of ash and the cremations of up to 2,000 bodies in under 20 minutes.

            I can barely cook a few hot-dogs in 20 minutes, using only wood and coke fuel on an outdoor improvised grill system to burn 2,000 human bodies made mostly of water in that time doesn’t require any scientific knowledge to be laughed at(but the science laughs too).

            The top Nazi doctor on trial at Nuremberg stated specifically he witnessed the ‘blue’ corpses of victims of CARBON MONOXIDE poisoning in the gas chambers.

            For such a highly regarded doctor to make such a blatant error such as forgetting that CO poisoning produces a pink tinge and suffocation produces blueness is beyond understandable, it should have been basic knowledge for him.

            And a mining engineer like Gerstein claiming to witness diesel engines in use for killing when it is common knowledge even back then in the mining industry that only diesel engines could be used safely in the mines due to their LOW LEVELS OF CO PRODUCTION, and high oxygen content in the exhaust which dilutes the CO further.

            For sources and actual testimony reviews from a revisionist perspective check CODOH –

            http://www.codoh.com/

            NOTE: CODOH was founded by Bradley Smith, his cousin was Audrey Young who was married to Billy Wilder – a film director who helped the U.S Psychological Warfare Department(PWD) invent the Holocaust extermination myths, as is detailed here:

            (click at own risk, they may be watching…)

            http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com/wilder/

            “How many inmates were actually de-loused? All of them. Once”

            Hmm, not according to former Auschwitz III inmate Sam Pivnik, he says the Nazi’s were brutally anal about delousing operations and cleanliness –

            “Mr Avey claims the clothes he borrowed from the Jewish inmate were infested with lice. This detail is doubted by former inmate Sam Pivnik.

            ‘We were made to be scrupulously clean at all times in Auschwitz III work-camps, and you risked a severe beating if you got dirty,’ Pivnik says.

            ‘The SS were terrified of typhus outbreaks and the prisoners’ uniforms, bedding and barracks were endlessly disinfected and deloused.’ ”

            From – ‘Did this British PoW really smuggle himself into Auschwitz to expose the Holocaust… or is his account pure fantasy and an insult to millions who died there?’

            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1375018/Denis-Avey-broke-Auschwitz-expose-Holocaust-account-insult.html#ixzz1J0YOjDvE

            Maybe they should have asked that question about his ludicrous stories a few years ago before the British government awarded him a commendation as a ‘Hero’ and the Holocaust Industry jumped on it like it was the word of God.

            Oddly his tales are almost identical to those of a book by another POW Charles Coward, and the cover of that book refers to Coward as ‘The Man Who Broke Into Auschwitz’ – the exact title of Mr. Avey’s book.

            I wonder if Coward’s tales will be seriously reviewed for logical retardation after all this time as a result of this?

            Probably not, his story has been supported for too long now.

          • Johnny

            Well I don’t have links handy to find the exact testimonies right now so I will digress for the moment on that, but any claim that their ‘confessions’ didn’t contain obvious lies is verging on delusional.

            I know for a fact at least two confessions involved tales of ‘blood geysers’ shooting out of the ground from bodies beneath, mountains of ash and the cremations of up to 2,000 bodies in under 20 minutes.

            I can barely cook a few hot-dogs in 20 minutes, using only wood and coke fuel on an outdoor improvised grill system to burn 2,000 human bodies made mostly of water in that time doesn’t require any scientific knowledge to be laughed at(but the science laughs too).

            The top Nazi doctor on trial at Nuremberg stated specifically he witnessed the ‘blue’ corpses of victims of CARBON MONOXIDE poisoning in the gas chambers.

            For such a highly regarded doctor to make such a blatant error such as forgetting that CO poisoning produces a pink tinge and suffocation produces blueness is beyond understandable, it should have been basic knowledge for him.

            And a mining engineer like Gerstein claiming to witness diesel engines in use for killing when it is common knowledge even back then in the mining industry that only diesel engines could be used safely in the mines due to their LOW LEVELS OF CO PRODUCTION, and high oxygen content in the exhaust which dilutes the CO further.

            For sources and actual testimony reviews from a revisionist perspective check CODOH –

            http://www.codoh.com/

            NOTE: CODOH was founded by Bradley Smith, his cousin was Audrey Young who was married to Billy Wilder – a film director who helped the U.S Psychological Warfare Department(PWD) invent the Holocaust extermination myths, as is detailed here:

            (click at own risk, they may be watching…)

            http://www.holocaustdenialvideos.com/wilder/

            “How many inmates were actually de-loused? All of them. Once”

            Hmm, not according to former Auschwitz III inmate Sam Pivnik, he says the Nazi’s were brutally anal about delousing operations and cleanliness –

            “Mr Avey claims the clothes he borrowed from the Jewish inmate were infested with lice. This detail is doubted by former inmate Sam Pivnik.

            ‘We were made to be scrupulously clean at all times in Auschwitz III work-camps, and you risked a severe beating if you got dirty,’ Pivnik says.

            ‘The SS were terrified of typhus outbreaks and the prisoners’ uniforms, bedding and barracks were endlessly disinfected and deloused.’ ”

            From – ‘Did this British PoW really smuggle himself into Auschwitz to expose the Holocaust… or is his account pure fantasy and an insult to millions who died there?’

            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1375018/Denis-Avey-broke-Auschwitz-expose-Holocaust-account-insult.html#ixzz1J0YOjDvE

            Maybe they should have asked that question about his ludicrous stories a few years ago before the British government awarded him a commendation as a ‘Hero’ and the Holocaust Industry jumped on it like it was the word of God.

            Oddly his tales are almost identical to those of a book by another POW Charles Coward, and the cover of that book refers to Coward as ‘The Man Who Broke Into Auschwitz’ – the exact title of Mr. Avey’s book.

            I wonder if Coward’s tales will be seriously reviewed for logical retardation after all this time as a result of this?

            Probably not, his story has been supported for too long now.

  • Anna

    Johnny-

    I very rarely comment or post my opinions on websites.. I find it odd how some people can be so cruel to complete strangers about their opinions. Therefore, I am going to refrain from any insults or offensive comments.
    What I will say is that it is absolutely shocking you are able to go around denying the Holocaust. What are your opinions on the more recent genocides?? Do you believe they are fabricated stories as well? To deny the cruelty of the Nazi Regime and to deny the facts that exist on the deaths of millions of men, women, and children is incredible. What sort of evidence are you looking for? There are thousands of photographs in existence taken by the Nazis- it os very well known that they were incredibly organized. They documented absolutely everything. How about the mass graves that have been found with human remains?
    In response to your comment about why the Nazis had delousing rooms- they were not meant to “keep the inmates alive” and the fact that you seem to believe this is laughable. The Nazis had a method to their cruelty. The ‘humane’ delousing rooms you are thinking of were actually a form of stripping the prisoners of their humanity, to make them feel like they were nothing- to completely break them In these rooms the prisoners were stripped naked, had their heads and ALL body hair completely shaved, in some camps they were tattooed with numbers- the Nazis understood that to keep control they had to break the will of the people.
    And in response to where all the wood etc came from? What do you think the Nazis were doing with the millions of prisoners exactly? Playing chess? Every morning the prisoners were lined up and would head out to the forests or to fields to do a number of ‘activities’. These included cutting wood, digging ditches (which would eventually become their graves) cutting stones.
    The Nazis were geniuses. You don’t think it is possible they had plans for how to cover up their tracks (in reference to the lack of Zyklon B)?

    • Johnny

      Your comments clearly show you don’t understand the actual information that exists on the matter. You should look into the academic world of Holocaust history as it offers a far less propagandized view of the available evidence in more detailed form, though obviously I don’t support it myself.

      I do believe the Nazi’s were very intelligent, and if you bothered to review the actual academic material on the mass-murder stories you would realize that it is the official story that claims the Nazis were stupid.

      And they were able to defy laws of science too apparently, and not just the more speculative ones that I agree can be defied but very well established and undeniable laws of science.

      Like a person made of 90%+ water won’t burn to ash in a few minutes like dry firewood(let alone stacks of thousands of bodies), yet if you believe the witnesses most of them say that is exactly what happened(they have very detailed accounts of it…). Damn Nazi’s clearly must have been into Black Magic.[/sarcasm]

      “What I will say is that it is absolutely shocking you are able to go around denying the Holocaust. What are your opinions on the more recent genocides?? Do you believe they are fabricated stories as well?”

      Now you’re just trolling and trying to imply I am ignorant to everything in the world to try to dismiss me, which I will admit carries more tact than direct insults so thank you I guess.

      But if there is physical evidence of genocide/atrocities then no I don’t deny them in any way, I have spoken out about many genocides that are officially denied as well – many U.S backed African countries like ‘ethnic cleansing’, but they do it officially under the ‘War on Terror’ banner and thus it’s not really genocide, no matter how much it may look, smell and even taste just like it.

      And while I am very much opposed to the Israeli occupation of Palestine there are many alleged atrocities committed by Israel in the past(40’s and 50’s mainly) for which there is no evidence and thus I do not support those claims. Even though I know full well they are capable of it and have done it on other occasions using lies to try to call them on their other behavior is wrong in my view.

      “To deny the cruelty of the Nazi Regime and to deny the facts that exist on the deaths of millions of men, women, and children is incredible.”

      Try reading my first post again so you can understand I’m not denying the cruelty of the Nazi’s or the deaths of millions in any way, I’m trying to expose a lie that puts a few million “special” victims ahead of the 10’s of millions of other victims that barely get a mention in the official history(because the Allies killed roughly half(or more) of them in mass-bombing campaigns they initiated).

      There is plenty of physical evidence recorded/documented (at the time) of all those victims(entire cities laid to waste is hard to hide), yet we view them as ‘collateral damage’ and spend all of our time focusing on a relatively small number of ‘special’ victims for which there is little evidence to support their mass-murder claims.

      “What sort of evidence are you looking for?”

      I’ve already answered that numerous times here, but to clarify a bit more – I’m looking for evidence that isn’t contradicted by science(or commonsense in a few cases).

      “There are thousands of photographs in existence taken by the Nazis- it os very well known that they were incredibly organized.”

      Please do point me to these photo’s showing actual proof of the mass-murders, cause so far everyone keeps telling me there are ‘thousands of them’ yet I haven’t seen one and nobody that tells me they exist seems to know where they are either.

      And I obviously am excluding the one photo that allegedly showed the smoke plume from the cremation fires since it was proven fake decades ago. That doesn’t stop people from constantly posting it as evidence and then disappearing when I point out it’s an undisputed fake(in the academic world).

      And also excluding the photo’s of the camps at liberation, for which I already mentioned the Allies found no trace of gassing deaths among the bodies present at that time.

      “They documented absolutely everything.”

      That’s strange, I was under the impression they didn’t document the mass-murders because they were trying to hide them, that’s why there is only one or two documents that mention the ‘Final Solution'(that can be construed to mean ‘mass murder’ anyways).

      I know the Allies recovered something like 3,000 tons of Nazi documents, why did they rely primarily on eyewitnesses and “confessions” to build their case at Nuremberg if the Nazi’s documented in detail the mass-murders as you mention?

      There are many documents from the camps that mention ‘special treatment’ for some prisoners, but the idea that ‘special treatment’ meant mass-murder is contradicted by the fact ‘special treatments’ were given out at every camp, including the ones that weren’t death camps. And there were people who were recorded as receiving ‘special treatment’ in the camps that survived the whole ordeal, so again the idea that it meant ‘death’ is non-evidenced and simply implied by “witnesses” and official propaganda.

      “How about the mass graves that have been found with human remains?”

      Well there were at least 800,000 inmates of the camps killed by Typhus and/or starvation during the war according to the documents you mention, do you think their bodies magically disappeared?

      Bodies alone don’t prove mass-murder given the context of the Typhus epidemics in the German camps(and Allied camps to lesser extents), and it being WWII Europe.

      “In response to your comment about why the Nazis had delousing rooms- they were not meant to “keep the inmates alive” and the fact that you seem to believe this is laughable. The Nazis had a method to their cruelty. The ‘humane’ delousing rooms you are thinking of were actually a form of stripping the prisoners of their humanity, to make them feel like they were nothing- to completely break them In these rooms the prisoners were stripped naked, had their heads and ALL body hair completely shaved, in some camps they were tattooed with numbers- the Nazis understood that to keep control they had to break the will of the people.”

      What?

      Nowhere in the academic world does such nonsense claims exist, you really need to put down the low-level propaganda bullshit and try some intelligent discussion, even if it doesn’t agree with my views.

      “And in response to where all the wood etc came from? What do you think the Nazis were doing with the millions of prisoners exactly? Playing chess? Every morning the prisoners were lined up and would head out to the forests or to fields to do a number of ‘activities’. These included cutting wood, digging ditches (which would eventually become their graves) cutting stones.”

      Hmm, aerial photography by the Allies disagrees with you, the reason I asked was because I’ve reviewed lots of aerial photo’s taken throughout the course of the war of the camps and the regions/nearby towns and such around the camps and there is no sign of the mass-deforestation that would have been needed for the literally hundreds of thousands of kg’s of wood needed to burn so many bodies at each of the camps.

      Are you saying the inmates went out and cut down thousands and thousands of invisible tree’s and used them to burn all the bodies?

      And while there are some images of disturbed soil at certain periods at certain camps the areas are far too small to account for the number of bodies(after being cremated, Typhus in the water table isn’t good) that are alleged by mass-murder.

      On the other hand those areas would nicely fit the specific death figures recorded by the Red Cross(present in every camp) for deaths due to disease, malnourishment and occasional murder/mistreatment at the camps during those periods(total approx 800,000).

      “The Nazis were geniuses. You don’t think it is possible they had plans for how to cover up their tracks (in reference to the lack of Zyklon B)?”

      There was no forensic testing to be able to detect the residue at that time so it’s highly unlikely they would have even thought of that but I suppose it is possible.

      But if they did and if they had managed to find a cleaner that can actually remove the residue(which I don’t think there is) it doesn’t make much sense for them to scrub down the entire buildings inside and out right before they demolished them with explosives as they fled the Allied advance.

      If you believe the Soviets the Nazi’s weren’t smart enough to remember to clean up a basket full of severed heads they allegedly left behind at Auschwitz, which was literally the most damning “physical evidence”(a photo from the Soviets actually) recovered of Nazi crimes.

      The piles of bodies and the conditions at the time of ‘liberation'(Soviet incarceration) are shocking and disturbing, almost as shocking as the Soviet’s own camps at the time(and before and after).

      When the ground is frozen solid and you have no fuel(or limited fuel) for the cremations due to the supply lines being cut the bodies tend to stack up fast as the food and medical supplies also run out.

      The end result makes for one hell of a saddening and downright nasty image that doesn’t leave the mind once witnessed, but doesn’t prove one damn thing as far as there being a purposeful campaign of mass-extermination by the Nazi’s.

      There are graves containing the ashen remains of the victims of the Holocaust that died of disease, malnourishment and to a smaller than claimed extent maltreatment by the Nazi’s, but they won’t excavate those remains because they know they won’t find enough ash to account for up to 11 million alleged victims, not even the 6 million Jews claimed.

      And yes the Nazi’s were true geniuses, they adopted the Swastika based on the ancient sun-wheel for a good reason, and were on the verge of numerous technological breakthroughs when they were defeated.

      And at one of their ‘death camps’ where they had huge outdoor cremation pyre’s burning thousands of bodies they were so advanced they built a fence out of dead tree branches to conceal their operation.

      And were damn lucky they didn’t burn the whole camp to the ground during the cremations.

      It is very smart to build a camp that could be burnt to the ground with a single match put to the fence(inside or out). But I’m sure they had extremely advanced fire-fighting technology to deal with that possibility so they didn’t mind the extreme risks… in the middle of a war.

      Also, I do believe that was the camp where the mass graves were like 100 feet away from the unfiltered water well that the entire camp including the guards made use of everyday.

      Apparently burying dead bodies right next to your only clean water supply is a very smart thing to do, since the Nazi’s were geniuses and all…

      Bah, I don’t know why I’m wasting my time trying to point out commonsense issues on a matter dominated entirely by emotions.

      I’d like to give you the benefit of the doubt and say you’ll actually do some academic research on the matter, but I have enough experience to know that is unlikely.

      Either way I do enjoy seeing some actual discussion rather than just blatant attacks/trolling for once though.

      [note – I’m really tired so please don’t nitpick about spelling or grammar, if it’s really bad I’ll correct it later when I’m more awake.]

      • Ellie

        Hi Johnny,

        I find this extremely interesting. You present so much information, I find it hard to comprehend, I have to keep re-reading it.

        What I would like to say is that history shows that governments and other agencies of power “spin” the information they want us to know, to their benefit. I question everything historical that the governments and persons in power have been involved in. We have been lied to and are still being lied to.

        World War II (and every other war in my opinion), was a tragedy. And now another one is underway. I am totally against it, I do not support it.

        I have said this before, I am thankful that we have access to information so that we can review the “facts” and come to our own conclusions.

        Peace.

        • Johnny

          Hello again Ellie.

          You might find it interesting that the first mention of 6 million Jews being persecuted in a ‘threatened holocaust’ in Europe was in 1919 by a former governor of New York named Martin H. Glynn.

          That was almost 20 years before the Nazi Holocaust of Jews allegedly began, or the Nazi’s even came to power.

          It came right at the end of a war filled with nasty propaganda lies of all kinds and as Edward Bernays pointed out the American people(and other ‘western’ peoples) were extremely skeptical of huge claims like that and didn’t believe it, so it was forgotten.

          Then 20 years later WWII started and suddenly while trying to drum up ‘western’ support the 6 million Jew Holocaust story came up again as propaganda, this time directed at the Nazi’s.

          Not surprisingly very few people actually believed the stories the second time around either until the war was over and images of piles of bodies at the ‘liberated’ camps began filtering out around the world along with small numbers of ‘eyewitness’ gut-wrenching tales of Jew soap, lampshades, mattresses, etc. attached to those previously more general PR stories and giving the claims more credibility.

          The key to all good propaganda is in the details, as long as you have lots of details it doesn’t really matter if they are true or not, and if those details cause an emotional reaction that’s a hundred times better.

          [On a brief side note: There have been a number of studies that show that women are statistically better liars than men, and one of the main reasons for that is that many women lie with so much detail that in order to question the main lie you have to question 5,000 other smaller lies first. That is tedious for anyone so few people will actually bother(especially men) and literally would rather accept a lie knowing it’s a lie then get into the huge discussion/argument that results from challenging it.]

          Of course we now know that none of those bodies recovered were found to have died from gassing/poisoning and many of those deaths near the end of the war were partially the responsibility of Allied forces by way of their cutting of the German supply lines to the camps.

          But there are still lots of people who see those piles of bodies and immediately connect them to the ‘gas chambers’ and ‘death camps’ and the (false)’Final Solution’.

          Of course it may be appropriate to connect them to the ‘death camps’ as I don’t think it is a coincidence that all of the alleged ‘death camps’ were the same camps found with piles of bodies in areas mainly in Poland during the winter(when burial couldn’t take place), which were also the camps furthest from the ‘motherland’ and most affected by the supply lines being cut.

          Those piles of bodies are not the result of the alleged campaign of mass extermination but they are an integral part of the mythology around it, without those piles of bodies for visual reference few people would believe that the Nazi’s(or anyone else) could really be responsible for such massive death and suffering.

          Or at least they wouldn’t have believed it back then when they were far for skeptical and less “spun” than today thanks to the propaganda experiences of WWI.

          But then people like Claude Lanzmann come along with films and books like this that provide “the most minute details”, with some of those details being completely false and most of the rest being taken out of context due to the other false details they insert.

          And eye-witnesses are particularly effective for this type of propaganda as where one might normally think of the ‘poor Jews’ who suffered after watching a film like this they connect it to an individual person, a face to stay in their memory. It becomes ‘poor Ishmael’ or ‘poor Isaac’ rather than ‘poor Jews’.

          Hence why the media in the West(at least North America) goes through so much trouble to avoid giving any ‘faces’ to the Palestinians victims of Israel’s illegal occupation while expending great effort to go into great detail about Israeli soldiers killed supporting that illegal occupation(talking about their individual dreams and aspirations in life, talking to their family members, witnesses, etc.).

          If a Palestinian family dies they get a brief ‘in other news, 5 Palestinians were killed today in violence in Gaza, no Israeli’s were harmed and a spokesperson for the Israeli Defense Forces says…[they’re terrorists, they deserved it, no big deal, yadda yadda]’ usually followed by ‘entertainment news’ or commercials or something else more ‘upbeat’ to distract us so we don’t think about those unnamed, unworthy victims for a moment too long.

          Anyways I’m wandering off topic once again so I’ll cut it off there and head to bed. I should already be in bed but my body decided it was only in the mood for a short nap first, lol.

          I’ll leave off simply by summing up that there’s certainly lots of interesting details out there on the issue of the Holocaust, but the ones which are based on real evidence and placed in true context should always be given primary attention, sadly though most people don’t even know they exist.

          • Ellie

            Would you give me a little more information on what you know the ‘Final Solution’ to be. I notice above you wrote (false) before it.

          • Johnny

            @Ellie:

            Well this is one of the most controversial aspects of the whole revisionist case, but based on what I’ve reviewed on the subject the Final Solution was a plan of ‘encouraged emigration’ backed up by ‘forced deportation’ of all Jews out of Europe to a special Jewish “nation” the Nazi’s were planning to establish in Africa.

            Though it likely would have been more like modern Israeli occupied Palestine – a giant prison consisting of numerous pockets under a Nazi ‘matrix of control’ – rather than a typical ‘nation’.

            They chose Africa due the fact there is/was a large Jewish Israelite population there, including the true descendants of David who followed the Nile River out of Egypt and down into Northern Africa. It made sense, more so than sending them into the Mid-East and dropping the Nazi’s “Jewish problem” onto the Arabs as the Jewish Zionist terrorists in Palestine wanted at that time.

            Not surprisingly though the official history goes backwards and says or implies that the Nazi’s were taking the Jews from Africa and sending them to the ‘death camps’ in Europe when those camps were already filled with the European Jews the Nazi’s wanted out of Europe.

            It makes little sense for them to bring more Jews into Europe when their clearly stated goal in that regard was to ‘rid Europe of the Jews’, especially considering the many desolate desert areas of Nazi controlled Africa which would have been superior to build and operate secret ‘death camps’ in than a region which is frozen and buried under many feet of snow for 5 months+ of the year.

            At the very least it would have made a lot of sense to build a death camp or two to kill the African Jews in Africa, rather than shipping them all the way through Europe to ‘Aktion Reinhardt death camps’ in Poland just to kill them.

            Now it makes sense to transport some Jews out of Africa and into Europe if they are fit and capable of being used in the labor camps, but then again Africa has resources that could be exploited with labor camps there as well so it still doesn’t make that much sense to me.

            But it certainly is relevant that the official history allows the Zionists to claim the true Israelites from Africa who mostly are opposed to Zionism no longer exist – those that weren’t killed were mixed in the camps with all the other Jews and many are now in Israel itself, or so they say/imply.

            Having the world find out that the true direct descendants of the Israelites that were driven out of Israel/Egypt/the Mid-East are largely(if not entirely) opposed to the ‘state of Israel’ would be very bad PR, so unless you actually go to Ethiopia or the surrounding region and visit the Jewish areas you probably won’t know they exist in high numbers still(high numbers compared to the official figures anyways).

            But anyways again this whole issue is especially controversial, as usual 90% of the Nazi documents and other evidence that support it are simply dismissed as being fake, or simply “non-authenticated” and unable to be “authenticated”. Leaving only the more speculative evidence that is easily dismissed without the context of the other evidence to support it.

            Of course that’s a catch 22 since the only people that can “authenticate” the documents to a level the Holocaust supporters will actually accept are the academic Holocaust scholars that have built their careers on views that those documents call into serious doubt, a serious conflict of interest.

            That’s the grand irony of the Holocaust mass-murder mythology – the official myths are based largely on personal claims of small numbers of firsthand witnesses and have very little evidence to support them, but when revisionists bring forward actual evidence that goes against those few personal claims the evidence is dismissed as fake because it’s not “authenticated” by the academic supporters of the non-evidenced claims.

            So what’s real is fake and what’s fake is real, whenever needed and simply because they say so.

            And those who occasionally send me very graphic and detailed death threats because they feel MY hatred needs to end actually think they are good people.

            I know I have never threatened to cut someone’s stomach open and use a hacksaw to cut out each of their ribs while their family watches in horror, but that is actually one of the lesser threats I’ve received from some of the very friendly and totally non-hateful Holocaust supporters out there.
            [note the obvious sarcasm on ‘friendly’ and ‘non-hateful’]

            Why are the most hateful people often those who claim to be fighting against hatred?

            Bah, it’s enough to make your head hurt trying to understand the ass-backwardness of it all, but it’s still worth trying to figure it out just for the sake of personal enlightenment.

            I know I once I had someone tell me on one specific subject(that revisionists needed to provide evidence that their evidence was actually evidence…

          • Ellie

            @Johnny
            Thank you for responding…the information you stated is amazing.

            When you state ‘Why are the most hateful people often those who claim to be fighting against hatred?’, it brings to mind so many circumstances where that occurs. It’s a shame…

            May I ask you…who would send you death threats for your beliefs(I dont mean by names, but rather by their interest)? Let me see if I can sensibly explain the reason for my question…when I think of someone who might receive death threats, I think of a person who may be in power and able to make decisions that affect peoples lives in a negative manner and so the people who disagree with these decisions would make death threats for various reasons. Ummm…to explain what I am thinking further, say I relate my beliefs on a certain subject to my colleagues, they may think I am full of it, or even crazy, but they would not threaten my life…so I am curious what the situation may be that someone would threaten your life…however, if I am being too personal, please let me know.

            Also, do you have a personal stake in your reasons for investigating this particular historical period? I ask that because you come across as extremely passionate with this subject, (but I see that you are also very passionate in scientific topics)and many times passionate people have a personal stake in the issue. Again, you probably know by now that I have a curious nature, but if I am crossing boundaries with my questions, please let me know.

            I certainly do enjoy your comments and the information you present. I know you have stated before (something to the effect) that anyone can find out the information you present if they wanted to, but I did want to let you know that you are very fortunate that you can search out information, read it, understand it, remember it and relay it to others. I have the same desire to acquire information, but it is a struggle for me to understand what I read, especially if the information is complex. Anyway, you present information in a way that benefits my learning style. Thank you for continuing to take time to respond and comment on these documentaries.

            Ellie.
            A Like Reply

      • Joanandemma

        You are intoxicated by the exuberance of your own verbosity.  Less verbiage, much logic and some manners are required on your part.

      • Joanandemma

        You are intoxicated by the exuberance of your own verbosity.  Less verbiage, much logic and some manners are required on your part.

      • Joanandemma

        You are intoxicated by the exuberance of your own verbosity.  Less verbiage, much logic and some manners are required on your part.

  • kaosome

    wow this argument is awesome. i dont even need to watch the doc. please keep going.

    johnny – if you could cite some references that would be smashing.

    • Johnny

      Now why would I do that, if people were actually interested they would go research for themselves and likely find the info quite easily and then could judge it for themselves.

      If I post sources 90% of people don’t bother to check them anyways, and if they do it usually just involves Googling the author’s name and looking for a reason to dismiss them or the article/argument entirely.

      There are many websites that contain such information with easy access, but the best collections of material online come from the Committee for Open Debate Of the Holocaust(CODOH) and a quarterly revisionist journal called An Inconvenient History. Not that I personally support every single case they make, but they are the most complete collections of revisionist material online.

      The official Holocaust scholar’s view can be found best summarized(in my opinion) in the works of Jean Claude-Pressac, though there are many others as well.

      Providing references for every statement I make would be a huge waste of time, just look at the number of votes on my posts compared to the number of responses – most people have no interest in actually researching, discussing or taking the issue seriously, simply dismissing it is best.

      Every case I make, or 99% of them anyways, are addresses in detail with full references at CODOH’s website.

  • Ellie

    @Johnny
    Thank you for responding. There was not an option after your response above for me to reply…anyway, the information you stated is amazing.

    When you state ‘Why are the most hateful people often those who claim to be fighting against hatred?’, it brings to mind so many circumstances where that occurs. It’s a shame…

    May I ask you…who would send you death threats for your beliefs(I dont mean by names, but rather by their interest)? Let me see if I can sensibly explain the reason for my question…when I think of someone who might receive death threats, I think of a person who may be in power and able to make decisions that affect peoples lives in a negative manner and so the people who disagree with these decisions would make death threats for various reasons. Ummm…to explain what I am thinking further, say I relate my beliefs on a certain subject to my colleagues, they may think I am full of it, or even crazy, but they would not threaten my life…so I am curious what the situation may be that someone would threaten your life…however, if I am being too personal, please let me know.

    Also, do you have a personal stake in your reasons for investigating this particular historical period? I ask that because you come across as extremely passionate with this subject, (but I see that you are also very passionate in scientific topics)and many times passionate people have a personal stake in the issue. Again, you probably know by now that I have a curious nature, but if I am crossing boundaries with my questions, please let me know.

    I certainly do enjoy your comments and the information you present. I know you have stated before (something to the effect) that anyone can find out the information you present if they wanted to, but I did want to let you know that you are very fortunate that you can search out information, read it, understand it, remember it and relay it to others. I have the same desire to acquire information, but it is a struggle for me to understand what I read, especially if the information is complex. Anyway, you present information in a way that benefits my learning style. Thank you for continuing to take time to respond and comment on these documentaries.

    Ellie.

    • fuckgreece

      and you called me troll you mcdonalds eating americunt

      • Ellie

        f***greece,

        How does this even concern you?

        My comment is directed to Johnny, who, I am quite sure, will be able to make an intelligent decision regarding his response to me.

        I am also confident that Johnny would respond without the usage of ignorant vulgarity, unlike you who continues to confirm that you are unable to have intelligent correspondence.

        • fuckgreece

          I recall you commented on my comments on the Apollo Zero and you called me a troll. Talk about trolling

          • Ellie

            F***greece, you must realize that there are many meanings to the word “troll”.

            When I referred to you as a troll, this is the meaning that I was implying…..a dwarf, who inhabits caves, a derelict…meaning you display the intelligence of a dwarfed derelict who lives in a cave!

            Also, you are presumptious, as you have stated that I am a female American, although I have never denied nor confirmed this.

            I must tell you, and I am positive others will agree, you are not worth the time of day, and being the courteous person (hmm…male or female?) that I am, I thought I would inform you that you no longer merit a response from me, but please, feel free to continue to make an ass out of yourself here on Documentary Heaven!

          • Ellie

            F***greece, you must realize that there are many meanings to the word “troll”.

            When I referred to you as a troll, this is the meaning that I was implying…..a dwarf, who inhabits caves, a derelict…meaning you display the intelligence of a dwarfed derelict who lives in a cave!

            Also, you are presumptious, as you have stated that I am a female American, although I have never denied nor confirmed this.

            I must tell you, and I am positive others will agree, you are not worth the time of day, and being the courteous person (hmm…male or female?) that I am, I thought I would inform you that you no longer merit a response from me, but please, feel free to continue to make an ass out of yourself here on Documentary Heaven!

          • Ellie

            F***greece, you must realize that there are many meanings to the word “troll”.

            When I referred to you as a troll, this is the meaning that I was implying…..a dwarf, who inhabits caves, a derelict…meaning you display the intelligence of a dwarfed derelict who lives in a cave!

            Also, you are presumptious, as you have stated that I am a female American, although I have never denied nor confirmed this.

            I must tell you, and I am positive others will agree, you are not worth the time of day, and being the courteous person (hmm…male or female?) that I am, I thought I would inform you that you no longer merit a response from me, but please, feel free to continue to make an ass out of yourself here on Documentary Heaven!

      • Ellie

        f***greece,

        How does this even concern you?

        My comment is directed to Johnny, who, I am quite sure, will be able to make an intelligent decision regarding his response to me.

        I am also confident that Johnny would respond without the usage of ignorant vulgarity, unlike you who continues to confirm that you are unable to have intelligent correspondence.

      • Ellie

        f***greece,

        How does this even concern you?

        My comment is directed to Johnny, who, I am quite sure, will be able to make an intelligent decision regarding his response to me.

        I am also confident that Johnny would respond without the usage of ignorant vulgarity, unlike you who continues to confirm that you are unable to have intelligent correspondence.

      • hates trolls

        this int youtube. your angry dumb opinion’s are meaningless. Time to grow up.

        • fuckgreece

          who the fuck are you and you got no clue wtf im talking about you dumb shit.

  • fuckgreece

    World War II, 60,000,000 people died. That included Jews, whites, asians, blacks etc. They were killed, tortured, butchered, burned alive etc etc. The Nazis didnt only prosecute the jews but blacks, gypsies, homos (I dont disagree with that) and many others. Yet you dont hear about, you only hear about the holocaust of the jews. Much like the holocaust the Jews are practicing on the Palestinians.

    • Realist

      You lost me at the heading, the stated Black and Asian people being murdered in the WW2 Holocaust, factually incorrect. Let me guess, you battled in school. Now wanna come preach some weirdo doctrine online. Go to university, you may battle for ages to get a degree but you may clue on eventually.

    • Realist

      You lost me at the heading, the stated Black and Asian people being murdered in the WW2 Holocaust, factually incorrect. Let me guess, you battled in school. Now wanna come preach some weirdo doctrine online. Go to university, you may battle for ages to get a degree but you may clue on eventually.

      • fuckgreece

        Factually incorrect! Look up the holocaust of the Africans by the Nazis, see what the nazis did to the blacks in africa 100x times worse than the jews. Guess you all you want you dumb shit still you dont know shit. I hold BA In Mechanical Engineering what degree do you have motherfucker?

        WTF does “but you may clue on eventually” mean?

      • fuckgreece

        Factually incorrect! Look up the holocaust of the Africans by the Nazis, see what the nazis did to the blacks in africa 100x times worse than the jews. Guess you all you want you dumb shit still you dont know shit. I hold BA In Mechanical Engineering what degree do you have motherfucker?

        WTF does “but you may clue on eventually” mean?

        • Denni

          wash your mouth , you ignorant offending troll

          • UK

            shut up you nazi sympathising cunt

          • Denni

            haha you are funny , read and shut up yourself please

          • fuckGaygreece

            Heil HItler motherfucker

          • fuckGaygreece

            Heil HItler motherfucker

          • fuckgreece

            blow me

          • fuckgreece

            blow me

        • Anonymous

          The Germans developed extermination camps in Namibia as did the British in South Africa during the Boer war.  You are an idiot if you think Namibia was worse than in Germany.  Even if you do hold the lowest academic degree you should know how to read history.

    • Realist

      You lost me at the heading, the stated Black and Asian people being murdered in the WW2 Holocaust, factually incorrect. Let me guess, you battled in school. Now wanna come preach some weirdo doctrine online. Go to university, you may battle for ages to get a degree but you may clue on eventually.

    • Anonymous

      You hear a lot about it if you read. Don’t blame the Jews if you are lazy.

    • StraightForEquality

      You lost all credibility when you said that you agree with the murder of “homos”.  You’ve been brainwashed…..just another crazy judgmental religious nut.

      • Yo

        Why would someone loose their credibility by being a homophobic? Personally, I am not. To each their own. If they are attracted to a person of the same sex, so be it. This being said… Simply because they imply, or are, of being homophobic it doesn’t automatically invalidate everything they have previously stated. Their content should still be analyzed as it would otherwise.

        Oh my god, while we are on the topic of Jews and the Holocaust… I just saw a commercial on the History Channel about it… talk about propaganda.

  • fuckgreece

    World War II, 60,000,000 people died. That included Jews, whites, asians, blacks etc. They were killed, tortured, butchered, burned alive etc etc. The Nazis didnt only prosecute the jews but blacks, gypsies, homos (I dont disagree with that) and many others. Yet you dont hear about, you only hear about the holocaust of the jews. Much like the holocaust the Jews are practicing on the Palestinians.

  • fuckgreece
  • fuckgreece
  • fuckgreece
  • Ellie

    Hey, has anyone heard from Johnny? He usually replies/participates most days? I hope he is ok!

    • Johnny

      Sorry Ellie, I overlooked your last post here. Thank that troll “Andy Nonymous” for drawing my attention back here, lol.

      I haven’t been paying much attention to the responses here lately as 99% of the “questions” here are the same ones revisionists deal with all over the internet that ignore most of what is said and pounce on one or two of the most controversial issues, or just misstatements on my part(there are a few with so much writing). Or just blatantly attack me.

      Experience shows those questions can never be answered in a way that makes us anything other than lying Nazi Jew haters.

      And many of them would be answered easily if they actually read my entire posts instead of just ‘skimming’ them for the parts they can attack.

      But anyways, “May I ask you…who would send you death threats for your beliefs(I dont mean by names, but rather by their interest)?”

      Generally speaking maybe 80% of the death threats come from Zionists/hardcore Israel supporters who oppose both my Holocaust and Israel-Palestine views(which are intimately connected). The rest are a mix of people from mainly the American political right that oppose any one of a number of my political views which don’t look kindly upon the U.S.

      I’m not in a position of power I just say things they don’t like, so they make the threats to intimidate me and try to scare me into not discussing these things – because whether I’m right or completely wrong about most of them they don’t want people thinking about those issues at all outside of the ‘accepted’ viewpoint.

      “Also, do you have a personal stake in your reasons for investigating this particular historical period? I ask that because you come across as extremely passionate with this subject, (but I see that you are also very passionate in scientific topics)and many times passionate people have a personal stake in the issue.”

      Honestly I’m not entirely sure why I’m so passionate about these things. I don’t have a personal stake in any of it in the sense of benefiting or profiting personally from it, but I do in the sense that I feel I am part of a global community which would benefit universally and I would benefit from those universal changes just as everyone else.

      I grew up in a church run by wealthy Dutch men who spent 6 days a week cheating on their wives, beating their wives and children, scamming people out of their money and just generally being very ‘wicked’ people, but once a week they went to church and paid their ‘tithes’ and all was forgiven.

      They were all upheld as ‘good Christian men’ and given lots of status and respect in our community.

      When I got away from that just to discover the rest of the world was full of as much bullshit and ran the exact same way I was greatly disappointed.

      I follow the words of Soviet dissident Yevgeni Yevtushenko “when the truth is replaced by silence, the silence is a lie.”

      I hate living in a world full of lies, hate it with a passion.

      No matter how many threats I receive I won’t stop doing my part to break the silence and expose the truth on the major issues until I die.

      • Ellie

        Glad to hear from you again. I did see the post from Andy Nonymous and I laughed my head off !! I take his comment as a compliment, I would love to be as knowledgeable as you, but I hope to have many more years to acquire lots of knowledge! Also, I would have responded sooner but I have been on vacation so I really have not spent much time on this site.

        Regarding this topic, I have not really been able to understand the dynamics and history of Israel and Palestine. Can you give me a bit of a synopsis that would help me to understand this better?

        PS…did f***greece change his name to f***gaygreece?

        • Johnny

          I’m a bit short on time at the moment but for the best synopsis of the Israel-Palestine conflict I’ve found watch the documentary ‘Occupation 101′, which can be found here:

          http://documentaryheaven.com/occupation-101/

          It get’s into the history starting with the first wave of European Jewish immigrants to Palestine in the 1880’s, the Balfour Declaration of 1916 and the whole Irgun-Stern Zionist terrorism against the British and Palestinians culminating with the King David Hotel bombing in 1946.

          Had it not been for the alleged Holocaust of millions of Jews and the sympathy derived from that propaganda those Zionist terrorists would have ended up simply being exterminated by the British as per their SOP, not having their own state.

          Without the alleged Jewish Holocaust the terrorist state of Israel likely would not exist today.

          Also, I’m not sure but I assume the two Greece’s are one and the same judging by style of writing and “debate”…

          • Ellie

            Thanks so much Johnny. I actually started watching this last night on youtube, the link here at DH isnt working for that documentary for some reason. Anyway, I am going to continue to watch the doc on youtube tonight…but from the bit I watched last night, I just get so p’d off at the injustice in this world…what is wrong with people? Thanks again for the recommendation. Ellie.

        • Johnny

          I’m a bit short on time at the moment but for the best synopsis of the Israel-Palestine conflict I’ve found watch the documentary ‘Occupation 101′, which can be found here:

          http://documentaryheaven.com/occupation-101/

          It get’s into the history starting with the first wave of European Jewish immigrants to Palestine in the 1880’s, the Balfour Declaration of 1916 and the whole Irgun-Stern Zionist terrorism against the British and Palestinians culminating with the King David Hotel bombing in 1946.

          Had it not been for the alleged Holocaust of millions of Jews and the sympathy derived from that propaganda those Zionist terrorists would have ended up simply being exterminated by the British as per their SOP, not having their own state.

          Without the alleged Jewish Holocaust the terrorist state of Israel likely would not exist today.

          Also, I’m not sure but I assume the two Greece’s are one and the same judging by style of writing and “debate”…

        • Johnny

          I’m a bit short on time at the moment but for the best synopsis of the Israel-Palestine conflict I’ve found watch the documentary ‘Occupation 101′, which can be found here:

          http://documentaryheaven.com/occupation-101/

          It get’s into the history starting with the first wave of European Jewish immigrants to Palestine in the 1880’s, the Balfour Declaration of 1916 and the whole Irgun-Stern Zionist terrorism against the British and Palestinians culminating with the King David Hotel bombing in 1946.

          Had it not been for the alleged Holocaust of millions of Jews and the sympathy derived from that propaganda those Zionist terrorists would have ended up simply being exterminated by the British as per their SOP, not having their own state.

          Without the alleged Jewish Holocaust the terrorist state of Israel likely would not exist today.

          Also, I’m not sure but I assume the two Greece’s are one and the same judging by style of writing and “debate”…

        • Johnny

          I’m a bit short on time at the moment but for the best synopsis of the Israel-Palestine conflict I’ve found watch the documentary ‘Occupation 101′, which can be found here:

          http://documentaryheaven.com/occupation-101/

          It get’s into the history starting with the first wave of European Jewish immigrants to Palestine in the 1880’s, the Balfour Declaration of 1916 and the whole Irgun-Stern Zionist terrorism against the British and Palestinians culminating with the King David Hotel bombing in 1946.

          Had it not been for the alleged Holocaust of millions of Jews and the sympathy derived from that propaganda those Zionist terrorists would have ended up simply being exterminated by the British as per their SOP, not having their own state.

          Without the alleged Jewish Holocaust the terrorist state of Israel likely would not exist today.

          Also, I’m not sure but I assume the two Greece’s are one and the same judging by style of writing and “debate”…

  • Andy Nonymous

    i’m pretty certain “johnny” and “ellie” are the same person

    • fuckGaygreece

      I knew it!

    • fuckGaygreece

      I knew it!

  • Rmhurricaneharry

    no doubt that Claude Lanzmann made this 9 and a half hour documentary about the Holocaust (without using a single frame of archive footage)it can be easily made to 90 hours also when the trick by c lanzmann had used :- abdruptly the documentry slides to the train tracks , boats in river or simply the road intensionally to make the documentry long.

  • Dillon

    Thank you everyone for all the laughs I got from skimming this thread. Didn’t watch the vid and didn’t read most of the comments.

    What’s with all the holocaust deniers posting on doc heaven? Also why, without fail, are they incapable of communicating their point without degrading into petty insults or writing lengthly posts guided by their warped and misled intuition.

    That said I do feel strongly about the “elephant in the room” that is Israel and the Palestinian issue. It is such a shame that reasonable debate is impossible because of fools such as these deniers on the one side and on the other people who can’t let the holocaust go and bring it up at every oppurtunity as justification for all Israel’s crimes.

    • Johnny

      Forty-Six Important Unanswered Questions-

      http://www.codoh.com/gcgv/gc46-origi.html

      It can’t get any simpler than that, but then we both know you are going to ignore it and dismiss it anyways as you already admit to doing with the rest of the discussion, as well as the video itself.

      What do you want, one of the biggest and most complicated events in recent history boiled down to 1 sentence?

      So you can then attack me for that without having to address all the actual intelligent points that need to be addressed on this major issue?

      Here’s one sentence – The Holocaust gas chamber stories are a religion unto themselves, they exist in complete defiance of scientific reasoning only because of the unquestioning blind faith of the ‘believers’.

  • Pingback: Shoah » WeNewsIt()

  • Massimo

     fuckgreece i second your thoughts vehemently.
    I think this downplaying of history is to make the Jewish people seem like the only ones who were wronged in the Second World War.Sure they suffered,but they do not deserve the immunity to criticism that they now have.The Holocaust is illegal to question in some countries for God’s sake. doesn’t that sound sketchy at all?? i’m not saying that it didn’t happen or anything but everything should be subject to questioning and skepticism, because i reckon that’s the only way to ensure truth. I think they(they, being those in power) purposefully exemplified the suffering of the Jews in order to establish a Jewish State in Israel,which by the way, was created without the consent of the Arab states.Why has nobody heard of what happened in Asia during the war? and why is the Holocaust taught so early on and reinforced throughout the years? The main focus of the Jewish plight and deaths should be the first tip off that something is up here.3 millions polish were exterminated as well as 3 million other assorted minorities. Why do they not a voice?? how about the Palestinians and the mass genocide done by the Zionist regime, throughout time immemorial and to present date????? 
    This is a sad sick little world unfortunately, and history as it unfolds is becoming more to me a ridiculed account of falsehood by rulers mostly knaves and soldiers mostly fools.

    • Alge Holten

      @a362d2aa2d834cfbee976830f006b6ca:disqus – that’s an interesting point you set across. i’m not a Jew hater, but i have to agree with your stand on this note. Only those with a closed mind would beg to differ. For that i salute you; Greetings from Norway.

    • Alge Holten

      @a362d2aa2d834cfbee976830f006b6ca:disqus – that’s an interesting point you set across. i’m not a Jew hater, but i have to agree with your stand on this note. Only those with a closed mind would beg to differ. For that i salute you; Greetings from Norway.

    • steamknife

      I hardly “Like” comments in any forum and I don’t really like the way you present your thoughts. But I do admit to like and agree what you said. It’s baffling to see people focusing too much on Jew’s sacrifice during the second world war.

    • Blaze

      You are obviously uneducated and whatever school taught you early on did a poor job….. Is your grandfather having serial numbers tattooed on their forearm enough prof for you? or how about his brother and father he saw get murdered?….. You seem like a smart fellow but when you speak of skepticism in the same sentence of the Holocaust, you are an idiot in my book. As for Israel becoming a state, Back in the early 1800s Jewish settlers bought most of the land they now call Israel. It then upset the farmers and “tenets” which caused this war and hatred. The Arabic people sold the land to the Jews so it is rightfully theirs.

  • COJONES224

    JUST REMEMBER THE ONLY ONES WITH NUKES INN THE MI EAST ARE THEM ND DONT LIKE THE NEIGHBORS TO HAVE THEM IT REMINDS ME OF ADOLF HE DINT WANT PEACE
    JUST POWER TO OPPRESS.

  • Ashley D.

    @a362d2aa2d834cfbee976830f006b6ca:disqus – holohoax? very unlikely , but yes a very good damn point. i’ll unquote a friend-
    We apologise in advance to any Jewish person who is offended by our jokes, but bad things happen to everyone, and claiming that your suffering deserves some sort of pity to a level beyond the respect that catholic sainthood has given people is so fucking self-centered that it makes us sick. You are not special because you suffered. Can you say Salem Witch Trials? Did the witches get their own country after the church tried to exterminate them? Shut your self-serving mouths and get over it.

  • Sydney

    Massimo–
    The reason the Holocaust of the Jews receives so much attention is because they were the minority group most vigorously and effectively targeted by the Nazis. And while the Nazis also sent homosexuals, Gypsies, political dissidents, and mentally-handicapped people to the work/death camps, statistically speaking the biggest losses were Jewish (by a wide margin). And while I believe in the First Amendment Right protecting Americans’ freedom of speech, I don’t find it “sketchy” necessarily that in other countries it is illegal to question the Holocaust. In Europe, you have to understand, there was a great horror that followed the war–how could we let this happen? How can we keep it from ever happening again? Those laws are in place (for better or for worse) because such countries don’t want to encourage potential Holocaust deniers. 

    There is no secret, insidious, “Jewish” agenda that gets the Holocaust taught in schools. It’s simply that it is, to date, the largest, best-organized, and most vicious ethnic genocide to have ever been perpetrated, and it occurred relatively recently, in a modern country responsible for many significant contributions to science, art, literature, music, architecture, culture, philosophy, medicine, etc. To learn about the Holocaust is to grapple with truly heady concepts–good and evil, the existence of god, the potential of man, loss, mortality, empathy, identity…

    I agree the millions of Polish deaths (and Russian deaths, and Allied deaths, deaths in North Africa, and Asia) are extremely tragic. The Polish deaths you mention, however, are not direct results of the Nazi death machine, just as the deaths in Hiroshima and Nagasaki are not. The Holocaust, or Shoah, encompasses the six million murdered lives (plus remaining survivors) who were selected for extermination according to eugenic criteria.

    As for the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel:

    There was no need for the United Nations to exaggerate (you used the word “exemplify,” which does not mean what you think) the plight of the Jews after the war; it was dire. If you are genuinely interested in researching this issue, there is no shortage of verifiable, unbiased material documenting the veracity of my statement. Before and during the war, when Jews, concerned for their safety because of new anti-semitic laws stripping them of their livelihoods and the right to attend university, etc., began searching for ways to leave Europe, they were repeatedly stymied. That’s because there was nowhere for Jews to go. (Think about it. I don’t know what nationality you are, but let’s just say you’re American. Say you’re in Foreign Country X and the government starts to persecute you for being an American. All you have to is run quickly to an embassy and America’s not only got you and your family on the first plane out of there, they have begun evacuating other Americans and publicizing the situation in the global media.)

    Jews in the pre-war period, however, had no embassy, no home country. And most countries (including the US, including England, including Palestine; China was a surprising exception) had very tight immigration laws that essentially trapped Jews in Europe. When the war was over, the Jews who had survived the death camps still had no where to go. The cities and villages they’d come from were extremely hostile to them (years of racist propaganda + their former neighbors often claimed their houses and business in their absence and did not wish to return them; there were cases of Jews, sole survivors of their families, returning to their home villages only to be murdered by their neighbors upon arrival.) And the countries who prevented Jews from emigrating before the war were not eager to have them at the end of it, impoverished and traumatized as they were.

    So here’s what happened. Palestine had been under British Mandate since the end of WWI. (Before that it was controlled by the Ottoman empire, not the Palestinian people.) At the end of WWII, the UN drafted a two-state agreement which would create BOTH an Israeli state and a Palestinian one, with Jerusalem as “international territory”. The coastal lands (where most of the Jews already living in Palestine lived) and the Negev, a desert) were to become the land of Israel; the central, and admittedly more fertile lands, were to be Palestine. Israel accepted this partition plan, but Palestine did not. Israel declared its independence, and the same day the surrounding Arab nations attacked. (Many of the soldiers fighting for Israel were Holocaust survivors, some of them the last remaining members of their families.) 

    Israel won that war, and it patrols conquered Palestinian territory to this day. It is easily said that “Israelis don’t want peace” but remember just like in any country, there are often vast constituencies that don’t agree with their governments. The Israeli government is very right-wing right now. The Israelis I’ve talked to have all said they want peace. In Israel, everyone serves in the army–everyone. Girls, boys–you turn eighteen, and you serve. What parent wouldn’t want peace? The one point I agree with you on is that Israelis and Jews worldwide need to be conscious of the atrocities committed in Gaza and the West Bank, and agitate passionately against them. 

    It is interesting to me to notice how more and more Israel is perceived as the aggressor in the West. Perhaps that is increasingly true; however I think part of the problem is that Israel continues to see itself as the victim. (It is still a tiny nation, the only Jewish nation, surrounded by many Arab countries that are either hostile or have been hostile in the past.) And just ten years ago, Palestinian suicide bombers were a huge issue. At one point, there were bombs going off every day; in nightclubs, killing teenagers; in pizza shops, killing families; in synagogues, killing those at prayer. Could you imagine a bomb going off everyday in New York City? There is an enormous paranoia in Israeli foreign policy, the effects of which pain me very much, but I can also see where it comes from. I hope I have explained it to you in a clear and thoughtful way. 

    If you have learned about the Holocaust as often as you say you have, then you know the phrase “Never Again.” The Holocaust was the culmination of millennia of religious persecution aimed at the Jewish diaspora ever since their expulsion from Israel. Jews say “Never Again” and educate their children (and others’ children) about the Holocaust because they understand the tenuousness of their safety–and the sovereignty of their new nation–and they have faith that the pure facts in their unadulterated horror can end Jewish persecution. 

    The only thing I ask of you, Massimo, and the others on this thread who agree with you, is to educate yourself. Read about the Israeli Settlements and the Amnesty International case against the IDF, but also study the Holocaust (and the fatal repercussions of German aggression across the globe, since it clearly interests you). Also read about the formation of Israel instead of making inaccurate assumptions (with anti-semitic resonances, whether intentional or not). Marshall your opinions once they are informed; it is important–for an empathetic global community–that we not make judgements from positions of ignorance.

    You might start with watching the documentary above. 

  • Sydney

    Massimo–
    The reason the Holocaust of the Jews receives so much attention is because they were the minority group most vigorously and effectively targeted by the Nazis. And while the Nazis also sent homosexuals, Gypsies, political dissidents, and mentally-handicapped people to the work/death camps, statistically speaking the biggest losses were Jewish (by a wide margin). And while I believe in the First Amendment Right protecting Americans’ freedom of speech, I don’t find it “sketchy” necessarily that in other countries it is illegal to question the Holocaust. In Europe, you have to understand, there was a great horror that followed the war–how could we let this happen? How can we keep it from ever happening again? Those laws are in place (for better or for worse) because such countries don’t want to encourage potential Holocaust deniers. 

    There is no secret, insidious, “Jewish” agenda that gets the Holocaust taught in schools. It’s simply that it is, to date, the largest, best-organized, and most vicious ethnic genocide to have ever been perpetrated, and it occurred relatively recently, in a modern country responsible for many significant contributions to science, art, literature, music, architecture, culture, philosophy, medicine, etc. To learn about the Holocaust is to grapple with truly heady concepts–good and evil, the existence of god, the potential of man, loss, mortality, empathy, identity…

    I agree the millions of Polish deaths (and Russian deaths, and Allied deaths, deaths in North Africa, and Asia) are extremely tragic. The Polish deaths you mention, however, are not direct results of the Nazi death machine, just as the deaths in Hiroshima and Nagasaki are not. The Holocaust, or Shoah, encompasses the six million murdered lives (plus remaining survivors) who were selected for extermination according to eugenic criteria.

    As for the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel:

    There was no need for the United Nations to exaggerate (you used the word “exemplify,” which does not mean what you think) the plight of the Jews after the war; it was dire. If you are genuinely interested in researching this issue, there is no shortage of verifiable, unbiased material documenting the veracity of my statement. Before and during the war, when Jews, concerned for their safety because of new anti-semitic laws stripping them of their livelihoods and the right to attend university, etc., began searching for ways to leave Europe, they were repeatedly stymied. That’s because there was nowhere for Jews to go. (Think about it. I don’t know what nationality you are, but let’s just say you’re American. Say you’re in Foreign Country X and the government starts to persecute you for being an American. All you have to is run quickly to an embassy and America’s not only got you and your family on the first plane out of there, they have begun evacuating other Americans and publicizing the situation in the global media.)

    Jews in the pre-war period, however, had no embassy, no home country. And most countries (including the US, including England, including Palestine; China was a surprising exception) had very tight immigration laws that essentially trapped Jews in Europe. When the war was over, the Jews who had survived the death camps still had no where to go. The cities and villages they’d come from were extremely hostile to them (years of racist propaganda + their former neighbors often claimed their houses and business in their absence and did not wish to return them; there were cases of Jews, sole survivors of their families, returning to their home villages only to be murdered by their neighbors upon arrival.) And the countries who prevented Jews from emigrating before the war were not eager to have them at the end of it, impoverished and traumatized as they were.

    So here’s what happened. Palestine had been under British Mandate since the end of WWI. (Before that it was controlled by the Ottoman empire, not the Palestinian people.) At the end of WWII, the UN drafted a two-state agreement which would create BOTH an Israeli state and a Palestinian one, with Jerusalem as “international territory”. The coastal lands (where most of the Jews already living in Palestine lived) and the Negev, a desert) were to become the land of Israel; the central, and admittedly more fertile lands, were to be Palestine. Israel accepted this partition plan, but Palestine did not. Israel declared its independence, and the same day the surrounding Arab nations attacked. (Many of the soldiers fighting for Israel were Holocaust survivors, some of them the last remaining members of their families.) 

    Israel won that war, and it patrols conquered Palestinian territory to this day. It is easily said that “Israelis don’t want peace” but remember just like in any country, there are often vast constituencies that don’t agree with their governments. The Israeli government is very right-wing right now. The Israelis I’ve talked to have all said they want peace. In Israel, everyone serves in the army–everyone. Girls, boys–you turn eighteen, and you serve. What parent wouldn’t want peace? The one point I agree with you on is that Israelis and Jews worldwide need to be conscious of the atrocities committed in Gaza and the West Bank, and agitate passionately against them. 

    It is interesting to me to notice how more and more Israel is perceived as the aggressor in the West. Perhaps that is increasingly true; however I think part of the problem is that Israel continues to see itself as the victim. (It is still a tiny nation, the only Jewish nation, surrounded by many Arab countries that are either hostile or have been hostile in the past.) And just ten years ago, Palestinian suicide bombers were a huge issue. At one point, there were bombs going off every day; in nightclubs, killing teenagers; in pizza shops, killing families; in synagogues, killing those at prayer. Could you imagine a bomb going off everyday in New York City? There is an enormous paranoia in Israeli foreign policy, the effects of which pain me very much, but I can also see where it comes from. I hope I have explained it to you in a clear and thoughtful way. 

    If you have learned about the Holocaust as often as you say you have, then you know the phrase “Never Again.” The Holocaust was the culmination of millennia of religious persecution aimed at the Jewish diaspora ever since their expulsion from Israel. Jews say “Never Again” and educate their children (and others’ children) about the Holocaust because they understand the tenuousness of their safety–and the sovereignty of their new nation–and they have faith that the pure facts in their unadulterated horror can end Jewish persecution. 

    The only thing I ask of you, Massimo, and the others on this thread who agree with you, is to educate yourself. Read about the Israeli Settlements and the Amnesty International case against the IDF, but also study the Holocaust (and the fatal repercussions of German aggression across the globe, since it clearly interests you). Also read about the formation of Israel instead of making inaccurate assumptions (with anti-semitic resonances, whether intentional or not). Marshall your opinions once they are informed; it is important–for an empathetic global community–that we not make judgements from positions of ignorance.

    You might start with watching the documentary above. 

  • Sydney

    Massimo–
    The reason the Holocaust of the Jews receives so much attention is because they were the minority group most vigorously and effectively targeted by the Nazis. And while the Nazis also sent homosexuals, Gypsies, political dissidents, and mentally-handicapped people to the work/death camps, statistically speaking the biggest losses were Jewish (by a wide margin). And while I believe in the First Amendment Right protecting Americans’ freedom of speech, I don’t find it “sketchy” necessarily that in other countries it is illegal to question the Holocaust. In Europe, you have to understand, there was a great horror that followed the war–how could we let this happen? How can we keep it from ever happening again? Those laws are in place (for better or for worse) because such countries don’t want to encourage potential Holocaust deniers. 

    There is no secret, insidious, “Jewish” agenda that gets the Holocaust taught in schools. It’s simply that it is, to date, the largest, best-organized, and most vicious ethnic genocide to have ever been perpetrated, and it occurred relatively recently, in a modern country responsible for many significant contributions to science, art, literature, music, architecture, culture, philosophy, medicine, etc. To learn about the Holocaust is to grapple with truly heady concepts–good and evil, the existence of god, the potential of man, loss, mortality, empathy, identity…

    I agree the millions of Polish deaths (and Russian deaths, and Allied deaths, deaths in North Africa, and Asia) are extremely tragic. The Polish deaths you mention, however, are not direct results of the Nazi death machine, just as the deaths in Hiroshima and Nagasaki are not. The Holocaust, or Shoah, encompasses the six million murdered lives (plus remaining survivors) who were selected for extermination according to eugenic criteria.

    As for the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel:

    There was no need for the United Nations to exaggerate (you used the word “exemplify,” which does not mean what you think) the plight of the Jews after the war; it was dire. If you are genuinely interested in researching this issue, there is no shortage of verifiable, unbiased material documenting the veracity of my statement. Before and during the war, when Jews, concerned for their safety because of new anti-semitic laws stripping them of their livelihoods and the right to attend university, etc., began searching for ways to leave Europe, they were repeatedly stymied. That’s because there was nowhere for Jews to go. (Think about it. I don’t know what nationality you are, but let’s just say you’re American. Say you’re in Foreign Country X and the government starts to persecute you for being an American. All you have to is run quickly to an embassy and America’s not only got you and your family on the first plane out of there, they have begun evacuating other Americans and publicizing the situation in the global media.)

    Jews in the pre-war period, however, had no embassy, no home country. And most countries (including the US, including England, including Palestine; China was a surprising exception) had very tight immigration laws that essentially trapped Jews in Europe. When the war was over, the Jews who had survived the death camps still had no where to go. The cities and villages they’d come from were extremely hostile to them (years of racist propaganda + their former neighbors often claimed their houses and business in their absence and did not wish to return them; there were cases of Jews, sole survivors of their families, returning to their home villages only to be murdered by their neighbors upon arrival.) And the countries who prevented Jews from emigrating before the war were not eager to have them at the end of it, impoverished and traumatized as they were.

    So here’s what happened. Palestine had been under British Mandate since the end of WWI. (Before that it was controlled by the Ottoman empire, not the Palestinian people.) At the end of WWII, the UN drafted a two-state agreement which would create BOTH an Israeli state and a Palestinian one, with Jerusalem as “international territory”. The coastal lands (where most of the Jews already living in Palestine lived) and the Negev, a desert) were to become the land of Israel; the central, and admittedly more fertile lands, were to be Palestine. Israel accepted this partition plan, but Palestine did not. Israel declared its independence, and the same day the surrounding Arab nations attacked. (Many of the soldiers fighting for Israel were Holocaust survivors, some of them the last remaining members of their families.) 

    Israel won that war, and it patrols conquered Palestinian territory to this day. It is easily said that “Israelis don’t want peace” but remember just like in any country, there are often vast constituencies that don’t agree with their governments. The Israeli government is very right-wing right now. The Israelis I’ve talked to have all said they want peace. In Israel, everyone serves in the army–everyone. Girls, boys–you turn eighteen, and you serve. What parent wouldn’t want peace? The one point I agree with you on is that Israelis and Jews worldwide need to be conscious of the atrocities committed in Gaza and the West Bank, and agitate passionately against them. 

    It is interesting to me to notice how more and more Israel is perceived as the aggressor in the West. Perhaps that is increasingly true; however I think part of the problem is that Israel continues to see itself as the victim. (It is still a tiny nation, the only Jewish nation, surrounded by many Arab countries that are either hostile or have been hostile in the past.) And just ten years ago, Palestinian suicide bombers were a huge issue. At one point, there were bombs going off every day; in nightclubs, killing teenagers; in pizza shops, killing families; in synagogues, killing those at prayer. Could you imagine a bomb going off everyday in New York City? There is an enormous paranoia in Israeli foreign policy, the effects of which pain me very much, but I can also see where it comes from. I hope I have explained it to you in a clear and thoughtful way. 

    If you have learned about the Holocaust as often as you say you have, then you know the phrase “Never Again.” The Holocaust was the culmination of millennia of religious persecution aimed at the Jewish diaspora ever since their expulsion from Israel. Jews say “Never Again” and educate their children (and others’ children) about the Holocaust because they understand the tenuousness of their safety–and the sovereignty of their new nation–and they have faith that the pure facts in their unadulterated horror can end Jewish persecution. 

    The only thing I ask of you, Massimo, and the others on this thread who agree with you, is to educate yourself. Read about the Israeli Settlements and the Amnesty International case against the IDF, but also study the Holocaust (and the fatal repercussions of German aggression across the globe, since it clearly interests you). Also read about the formation of Israel instead of making inaccurate assumptions (with anti-semitic resonances, whether intentional or not). Marshall your opinions once they are informed; it is important–for an empathetic global community–that we not make judgements from positions of ignorance.

    You might start with watching the documentary above. 

    • Boykrayzie

      @18c688f2b422be53b611424ea170b283:disqus – Hello Jude!!

  • Sydney

    Massimo–
    The reason the Holocaust of the Jews receives so much attention is because they were the minority group most vigorously and effectively targeted by the Nazis. And while the Nazis also sent homosexuals, Gypsies, political dissidents, and mentally-handicapped people to the work/death camps, statistically speaking the biggest losses were Jewish (by a wide margin). And while I believe in the First Amendment Right protecting Americans’ freedom of speech, I don’t find it “sketchy” necessarily that in other countries it is illegal to question the Holocaust. In Europe, you have to understand, there was a great horror that followed the war–how could we let this happen? How can we keep it from ever happening again? Those laws are in place (for better or for worse) because such countries don’t want to encourage potential Holocaust deniers. 

    There is no secret, insidious, “Jewish” agenda that gets the Holocaust taught in schools. It’s simply that it is, to date, the largest, best-organized, and most vicious ethnic genocide to have ever been perpetrated, and it occurred relatively recently, in a modern country responsible for many significant contributions to science, art, literature, music, architecture, culture, philosophy, medicine, etc. To learn about the Holocaust is to grapple with truly heady concepts–good and evil, the existence of god, the potential of man, loss, mortality, empathy, identity…

    I agree the millions of Polish deaths (and Russian deaths, and Allied deaths, deaths in North Africa, and Asia) are extremely tragic. The Polish deaths you mention, however, are not direct results of the Nazi death machine, just as the deaths in Hiroshima and Nagasaki are not. The Holocaust, or Shoah, encompasses the six million murdered lives (plus remaining survivors) who were selected for extermination according to eugenic criteria.

    As for the establishment of the Jewish State of Israel:

    There was no need for the United Nations to exaggerate (you used the word “exemplify,” which does not mean what you think) the plight of the Jews after the war; it was dire. If you are genuinely interested in researching this issue, there is no shortage of verifiable, unbiased material documenting the veracity of my statement. Before and during the war, when Jews, concerned for their safety because of new anti-semitic laws stripping them of their livelihoods and the right to attend university, etc., began searching for ways to leave Europe, they were repeatedly stymied. That’s because there was nowhere for Jews to go. (Think about it. I don’t know what nationality you are, but let’s just say you’re American. Say you’re in Foreign Country X and the government starts to persecute you for being an American. All you have to is run quickly to an embassy and America’s not only got you and your family on the first plane out of there, they have begun evacuating other Americans and publicizing the situation in the global media.)

    Jews in the pre-war period, however, had no embassy, no home country. And most countries (including the US, including England, including Palestine; China was a surprising exception) had very tight immigration laws that essentially trapped Jews in Europe. When the war was over, the Jews who had survived the death camps still had no where to go. The cities and villages they’d come from were extremely hostile to them (years of racist propaganda + their former neighbors often claimed their houses and business in their absence and did not wish to return them; there were cases of Jews, sole survivors of their families, returning to their home villages only to be murdered by their neighbors upon arrival.) And the countries who prevented Jews from emigrating before the war were not eager to have them at the end of it, impoverished and traumatized as they were.

    So here’s what happened. Palestine had been under British Mandate since the end of WWI. (Before that it was controlled by the Ottoman empire, not the Palestinian people.) At the end of WWII, the UN drafted a two-state agreement which would create BOTH an Israeli state and a Palestinian one, with Jerusalem as “international territory”. The coastal lands (where most of the Jews already living in Palestine lived) and the Negev, a desert) were to become the land of Israel; the central, and admittedly more fertile lands, were to be Palestine. Israel accepted this partition plan, but Palestine did not. Israel declared its independence, and the same day the surrounding Arab nations attacked. (Many of the soldiers fighting for Israel were Holocaust survivors, some of them the last remaining members of their families.) 

    Israel won that war, and it patrols conquered Palestinian territory to this day. It is easily said that “Israelis don’t want peace” but remember just like in any country, there are often vast constituencies that don’t agree with their governments. The Israeli government is very right-wing right now. The Israelis I’ve talked to have all said they want peace. In Israel, everyone serves in the army–everyone. Girls, boys–you turn eighteen, and you serve. What parent wouldn’t want peace? The one point I agree with you on is that Israelis and Jews worldwide need to be conscious of the atrocities committed in Gaza and the West Bank, and agitate passionately against them. 

    It is interesting to me to notice how more and more Israel is perceived as the aggressor in the West. Perhaps that is increasingly true; however I think part of the problem is that Israel continues to see itself as the victim. (It is still a tiny nation, the only Jewish nation, surrounded by many Arab countries that are either hostile or have been hostile in the past.) And just ten years ago, Palestinian suicide bombers were a huge issue. At one point, there were bombs going off every day; in nightclubs, killing teenagers; in pizza shops, killing families; in synagogues, killing those at prayer. Could you imagine a bomb going off everyday in New York City? There is an enormous paranoia in Israeli foreign policy, the effects of which pain me very much, but I can also see where it comes from. I hope I have explained it to you in a clear and thoughtful way. 

    If you have learned about the Holocaust as often as you say you have, then you know the phrase “Never Again.” The Holocaust was the culmination of millennia of religious persecution aimed at the Jewish diaspora ever since their expulsion from Israel. Jews say “Never Again” and educate their children (and others’ children) about the Holocaust because they understand the tenuousness of their safety–and the sovereignty of their new nation–and they have faith that the pure facts in their unadulterated horror can end Jewish persecution. 

    The only thing I ask of you, Massimo, and the others on this thread who agree with you, is to educate yourself. Read about the Israeli Settlements and the Amnesty International case against the IDF, but also study the Holocaust (and the fatal repercussions of German aggression across the globe, since it clearly interests you). Also read about the formation of Israel instead of making inaccurate assumptions (with anti-semitic resonances, whether intentional or not). Marshall your opinions once they are informed; it is important–for an empathetic global community–that we not make judgements from positions of ignorance.

    You might start with watching the documentary above. 

  • Omertazin

    @18c688f2b422be53b611424ea170b283:disqus -Both history and humanity will be better served by an open , honest examination of all events of WW2 and its aftermath. the lessons we should all take from the gruesome history are badly distorted by singular focus on the story of a group of people who represent only a minority of the victims, no one wants to deny the cruel realities of that experience. yet as aptly expressed by the late Senator Daniels Patrick Moynihan,-‘Everyone is entitled to his own opinion but no one is entitled to his own facts’. I rest my case. Sir/Mdm. best of regards.

  • Omertazin

    @18c688f2b422be53b611424ea170b283:disqus -Both history and humanity will be better served by an open , honest examination of all events of WW2 and its aftermath. the lessons we should all take from the gruesome history are badly distorted by singular focus on the story of a group of people who represent only a minority of the victims, no one wants to deny the cruel realities of that experience. yet as aptly expressed by the late Senator Daniels Patrick Moynihan,-‘Everyone is entitled to his own opinion but no one is entitled to his own facts’. I rest my case. Sir/Mdm. best of regards.

  • Tonykamaikaze

    @a362d2aa2d834cfbee976830f006b6ca:disqus People who cannot fathom that the jews could have faked the “Holocaust” probably have never been informed that the jews also faked the “Exodus” story found in the Torah. It was proven conclusively centuries ago that the entire “Exodus” story is pure fiction yet today many people still believe that the jews were enslaved for 500 years inside Egypt which never happened. The devious Jews know how to brainwash the uneducated masses through phony narratives which portray themselves as victims. so no worries mate, you are spot on!! 

  • Tonykamaikaze

    @a362d2aa2d834cfbee976830f006b6ca:disqus People who cannot fathom that the jews could have faked the “Holocaust” probably have never been informed that the jews also faked the “Exodus” story found in the Torah. It was proven conclusively centuries ago that the entire “Exodus” story is pure fiction yet today many people still believe that the jews were enslaved for 500 years inside Egypt which never happened. The devious Jews know how to brainwash the uneducated masses through phony narratives which portray themselves as victims. so no worries mate, you are spot on!! 

  • Tonykamaikaze

    @a362d2aa2d834cfbee976830f006b6ca:disqus People who cannot fathom that the jews could have faked the “Holocaust” probably have never been informed that the jews also faked the “Exodus” story found in the Torah. It was proven conclusively centuries ago that the entire “Exodus” story is pure fiction yet today many people still believe that the jews were enslaved for 500 years inside Egypt which never happened. The devious Jews know how to brainwash the uneducated masses through phony narratives which portray themselves as victims. so no worries mate, you are spot on!! 

  • Tonykamaikaze

    @a362d2aa2d834cfbee976830f006b6ca:disqus People who cannot fathom that the jews could have faked the “Holocaust” probably have never been informed that the jews also faked the “Exodus” story found in the Torah. It was proven conclusively centuries ago that the entire “Exodus” story is pure fiction yet today many people still believe that the jews were enslaved for 500 years inside Egypt which never happened. The devious Jews know how to brainwash the uneducated masses through phony narratives which portray themselves as victims. so no worries mate, you are spot on!! 

  • Tonykamaikaze

    @a362d2aa2d834cfbee976830f006b6ca:disqus People who cannot fathom that the jews could have faked the “Holocaust” probably have never been informed that the jews also faked the “Exodus” story found in the Torah. It was proven conclusively centuries ago that the entire “Exodus” story is pure fiction yet today many people still believe that the jews were enslaved for 500 years inside Egypt which never happened. The devious Jews know how to brainwash the uneducated masses through phony narratives which portray themselves as victims. so no worries mate, you are spot on!! 

  • Tonykamaikaze

    Holocaust or not, it has happened everyday since WWII. “Never again” my ass….as long as it’s not the Jews, they don’t give a rat’s ass. Palestine, Rwanda, Bosnia, Sudan, Cambodia and every person killed by their government that was most likely supported by the US and Israel…..

  • Tonykamaikaze

    Holocaust or not, it has happened everyday since WWII. “Never again” my ass….as long as it’s not the Jews, they don’t give a rat’s ass. Palestine, Rwanda, Bosnia, Sudan, Cambodia and every person killed by their government that was most likely supported by the US and Israel…..

  • Tonykamaikaze

    Holocaust or not, it has happened everyday since WWII. “Never again” my ass….as long as it’s not the Jews, they don’t give a rat’s ass. Palestine, Rwanda, Bosnia, Sudan, Cambodia and every person killed by their government that was most likely supported by the US and Israel…..

  • Tonykamaikaze

    Holocaust or not, it has happened everyday since WWII. “Never again” my ass….as long as it’s not the Jews, they don’t give a rat’s ass. Palestine, Rwanda, Bosnia, Sudan, Cambodia and every person killed by their government that was most likely supported by the US and Israel…..

  • eternal nation

    @Massimo how dare you call Israel mass murders. Do you know what is happening in Syria right now? Are you completely ignorant? After centuries and centuries of fleeing and being exiled from countless countries the Jews decided after the holocaust enough is enough. And now that they are trying to hold on to a little piece no bigger than the size of new jersey you call them murderers? Do you actually think that the holocaust is the only reason we wanted to establish Israel. Did you ever hear of the spanish inqusition? the blood libels? I have a little project for you and for the rest of you “anti-zionist”(really just masking your baseless hate) go and do some research and see how many different countries Jews have been exiled from since the 1492. Then tell me we do not have a right to establish a country in Israel. 

  • eternal nation

    @Massimo how dare you call Israel mass murders. Do you know what is happening in Syria right now? Are you completely ignorant? After centuries and centuries of fleeing and being exiled from countless countries the Jews decided after the holocaust enough is enough. And now that they are trying to hold on to a little piece no bigger than the size of new jersey you call them murderers? Do you actually think that the holocaust is the only reason we wanted to establish Israel. Did you ever hear of the spanish inqusition? the blood libels? I have a little project for you and for the rest of you “anti-zionist”(really just masking your baseless hate) go and do some research and see how many different countries Jews have been exiled from since the 1492. Then tell me we do not have a right to establish a country in Israel. 

  • Boykrayzie

    Israel- Why cant we debate it’s existence?Liberal western democracies fight for and promote the principles of freedom of speech in most situations. Often this freedom of speech is defended under some of the most bizarre and questionable circumstances. In Britain the right to free speech allows radicals espousing death and mayhem to hide behind European and British human rights legislation.However in one area, namely Israel, these same democracies are not just passive in their support for free speech, but actively suppress certain areas of debate.At the extreme end it has become a criminal offense to deny that the holocaust happened!! That the holocaust happened is a matter of historical fact and denying it should make a liberal society feel compassion for the obvious mental health problem of the speaker. In only a slightly less onerous example, the conspiracy that prevents any questioning of the right of Israel to exist, we witness the liberal societies cowering under an assumed collective guilt of association with Germany.That Palestinians have been located in the geographical location that is modern day Israel for many centuries is a historical fact. Would we not expect that being rounded up and moved into an ever shrinking area of land, to trigger some debate over the legitimacy of the people doing the rounding up?That Israel, is not the source of that debate (despite the apparent conflict of interest) doesn’t fit comfortably with its claim to be a modern, liberal democracy. I am reminded of slavery and Britain’s role in admonishing itself for unacceptable behavior and ultimately seeking a more morally acceptable position. Certainly one might expect a nation whose genesis was the horrors of the holocaust to show far more understanding and compassion to the Palestinians than is apparent in Israel today.But back in the West. By banning any debate of these topics around Israel the liberal societies are creating two problems to no obvious benefit to themselves, Israel or the Palestinians. And having adopted this approach these societies have now painted themselves into a corner where doing the reasonable or most beneficial thing would be characterised as appeasement. Thus we have two problems because of the position we are in:-1) The opportunity to provide a more benign outlet for the frustration of the vast majority of (balanced and reasonable) Palestinians is removed creating an almost mandatory funnel towards radicalism; and2) The unnecessary loss of freedom to speak our mind for the largely uninvolved citizens of the liberal societies.Clearly the situation is now so entrenched, emotive and linked to saving face, that it is beyond the parties to be more than passengers or spectators as this political train wreck happens in slow motion.Despite all the chatter of the Western liberals, radicals, Palestinians, other nations and Israel, the collective positions that each are now locked into holding will force each player to act out a their part in the scene just like wild animals driven by instinct. The rational mind, that has been the foundation  of  our civilisation, is forced to take a back seat as each actor, driven by this (apparently unstoppable)  force of nature,  acting on their rampant emotions, positions and relative power, plays out this tragedy for the next few generations.Hopefully this rather bleak view of the situation is not a reflection of the actual situation. Maybe those people who are in a position to do more than carp from the sidelines (like me), have a vision of how rational thought can get from the position we are in today with Israel, to a position that is better for all the parties.However for me it seems that like a sunset, the battle between the light and the dark is following a predictable cycle. Both parties, believing in their positions, are engaged in the fight. But, driven by stronger, more permanent laws of nature, the outcome is beyond the power of the protagonists to influence. Maybe in this case, the Darkness does not have to come.

  • Anonymous

    Some people ask incredulously, “How could this have happened?” Read some of the comments below. That’s how.

  • Anonymous

    Some people ask incredulously, “How could this have happened?” Read some of the comments below. That’s how.

  • Anonymous

    Some people ask incredulously, “How could this have happened?” Read some of the comments below. That’s how.

  • Pingback: Macabeos en Treblinka « Lluvia de enlaces()

  • Hykomdamor

    why do you always have to turn it around on the jews as propaganda and the poor plight of the palestinians who send their children off in suicide belts
    fuck off and watch the docu , dont comment about the persecution of the jews , as you cannot understand or relate to it 
    yes it happened to others , however the planned extermination was of the jews primarily , then others
    it was the jews who were enemy no.1 , and as such suffered greatly at the hands of the nazi regime. there are many docus on the mass murder of disabled people as well as gays and other minorities , the fact however stil remains that the “final solution” was made in order to exterminate the jews first
    now you can throw numbers all you want e.t.c , but those are facts , and please do excuse the jews for still hurting after 6 million of their own were gassed and burned alive for being who they are , this is a reccurent theme in the jewish history , and if you dont want to hear about it , dont go on this link and post insanley hurtful things.
    and for all those who believe the jews are commiting genocide on the palestinians 
    you genuinley make me sick to my stomach , and i really do question us as humans when i hear such filthy allegations being made
    did the nazis give millions of their german tax payers money to pay for aid and food to the jews?
    no
    but israel does this , as well as many other things
    it does deal with a heavy hand i can say , but this is a difficult sitution for both sides , and comparing the 2 is deplorable to the highest respect and i would go as far as to say as evil 

  • Shazzle1

    What constantly amazes me when i read cooments about this subject is that no one ever really learns, and that people continue to think it is fine to be intolerant of people to the point where they think murdering ” homos” is ok. I read on here about Jewish conspiracies and how they concentrate on what happened to them during the war. Of course they do, it was a catastrophe. Look how America has gone on and on about 9/11 and the numbers who died there were a drop in the ocean compared to the Holocaust. Granted many were killed who werent Jewish but that does not detract from what actually happened. As for arguing it either didnt happen or only a minority were actually murdered, the rest dying from typhus and other diseases, what a load of crap. The evidence speaks for itself. And yes I have studied the evidence. I am a historian who specialises in the Third Reich and the Holocaust. Whatever people think, and however many were killed, there is NO excuse for genocide, then or more recently. People are human beings regardless of religion or sexuality, no better or worse than anyone commenting on here. As one person said, read the quotes and you can see how the holocaust happened. Some of you disgust me!

  • DontHate

    This is why YouTube disabled comments on these videos. It is saddening that there are such ignorant people in the world. Holocaust deniers=Anti-Semites. No different from Post Nazi supporters or the KKK. I hope your stupidity stays confined to the internet.

  • Hello

    Johnny and Ellie are the same person – complete psychopath.

  • http://www.stumbleupon.com/stumbler/conniegow5 Mandy Adolphsen

    I do not even know how I ended up here, but I thought this post was great. I don’t know who you are but certainly you are going to a famous blogger if you are not already 😉 Cheers!

  • Pingback: Shoah documentary | Jimrunsdorf()

  • Q

    Nazi Germany was installed to wipe out all races that were not white. Indeed, if Nazi Germany had not been defeated, they may have been much more devastatingly successful, and been able to include other races more than they had the chance to. The fact is, they exterminated, in the majority, the people of Jewish faith. Some blacks, and other races were killed as well. The REASON the Jewish are commemorated for all they suffered is because it is they who were nearly exterminated. There is a great deal of racism in the world, and to protect and honor those who have been MURDERED, it has become illegal to deny the Holocaust AT ALL because to deny its existence would be to deny the great victory that was won against an evil dictator who would have destroyed EVERY RACE BUT WHITE if they’d been given the ability. PITY is different from RESPECT. RESPECT ALL THOSE INNOCENT WHO HAVE DIED IN THE HOLOCAUST. Never pity, never deny. It is the only way to learn. Deny the Holocaust, and let racism poison your mind, and you or your children or your children’s children may live to see the day that such horrors walk the Earth again. Yes, genocide blights the Earth today. But no one leader has had such far reaching and devastating effects on the entire world as Hitler did in WWII, and hopefully, never will again, as long as we are vigilant in our respect for each other, ALL RACES ARE ONE.

  • zakisbak

    mass genocide done by the Zionist regime –
    Bollocks.

  • Roland

    I often run across people who try to downplay the Holocaust of the Jews by pointing out that there have been many bigger genocides in history. The Nazis themselves killed 25 million Russians (and over 5 million Poles, and many others), in addition to the 6 million Jews. World War II in Europe as a whole killed 50 million people. Genghis Khan and his Mongol Empire killed tens of millions (without even having guns, a remarkable achievement); the European conquest of the Americas involved the killing of at least 100 million Native Americans across both continents, and maybe a lot more.

    But the reason why the Holocaust is such a big deal is NOT about the numbers of people killed. It’s about HOW and WHY they were killed. In most genocides and massacres, people get killed because they oppose the ruling authority, and the killing happens in a disorganized, haphazard sort of way that allows for relatively high chances of survival (lots of people run away, hide, etc.)

    The Holocaust was different. People were NOT killed for being opponents of the regime, but simply for being the “wrong” ethnic group. There is a difference between the dictator who says “obey me or die” and the one who says simply “die”. Hitler was the second kind. The Jews were not given the option of earning their survival in any way, not even by complete surrender and obedience. Also, the Holocaust was systematic, planned out in detail and carried out like an industrial operation with clockwork precision. It wasn’t a case of “let’s randomly kill some people over there” (like most genocides). Jews were carefully counted and registered; anyone trying to escape or hide was ruthlessly hunted down. Then they were loaded into trains and shipped off to death camps that had been built for the specific purpose of murdering them. Most mass killers just shoot people (or stab them, or whatever) – they don’t build an entire factory system of death, with its own special railways, barracks and gas chambers, designed to churn out dead bodies on a conveyor belt.

    This is what makes the Holocaust so special, and so horrifying: the fact that it was nearly impossible to escape it, and the fact that it involved an entire INDUSTRY dedicated to mass murder.

  • Tom

    Franz Suchomel (SS, Treblinka) and Franz Stangl (Commandant, Treblinka) both described in detail the machine of mass killing at that camp–one of four dedicated entirely to extermination. Their estimates of the number of Jews killed (by CO2 at Treblinka) are in the neighborhood of 400,000. This is the perpetrators talking.

  • hajiaru

    Jews Won’t Let WW2 Stop because they are making money The Holocaust Industry

  • http://Documentaryheaven Sujijones

    I didn’t get to see the documentary yet: “This Film Does Not Exist”, but the comments stunned me……How can a human being so hate someone they’ve never met and know nothing about? Wow, time to check yourselves folks, that kind of hate requires alot of energy, much better spent having a positive impact upon the community. Doesn’t matter who’s community. It’s okay to love your “own kind” , as it were, knock yourself out, but you’ve obviously never seen bodies before, or you wouldn’t be spending your ire on anyone else because of the color of their skin or the way they pray; I’ve got a news flash for you: everyone bleeds the same color…..

  • Tori

    I wish that this was the full 9 1/2 hour one. I got 2.5 hours into one on youtube before the English subtitles suddenly stopped. Finding this documentary to stream for free with English subtitles is like trying to find a unicorn. Thank you for the part of the documentary that you did post.