Abortion: Ireland’s Guilty Secret?

There is a battle being fought on the streets of Ireland, between people who feel abortion is the right of every women and those who believe that abortion is murder. In Northern Ireland which is part of the United Kingdom it is illegal to terminate a pregnancy unless giving birth puts the mothers life in danger, even if the baby would have no chance of survival once born. In this BBC film, Alys Harte spent the summer with some of Ireland’s army of pro-life campaigners as well as women faced with having to travel hundreds of miles to the mainland of UK and pay for an abortion. Harte also met up with some people prepared to take the law into their own hands.

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  1. A young fetus is not cognitive, it’s still part of the mother and it’s her choice… should I stop having periods, because an egg is released and is that a baby?

    • Great point! You are correct in stating that, in the first 8 weeks of pregnancy, the fetus does not have the same cognitive function as you or I. I have been pondering this consciousness dilemma for some time and I have come to the conclusion that we cannot accept this moral argument for the justification of terminating a pregnancy. Why? Well- let us take the argument all the way to its natural conclusion.

      Let us suppose that we have another human that is born but in a coma. When an individual is in a coma then individual has no consciousness, right? What happens if the person is an outpatient and relies solely on you to feed and nurture them through his coma? Let us posit that the doctor states that in 8 weeks that person (our favorite coma patient) will, without a shadow of a doubt, emerge from his coma and continue his life. Do you have the right to kill that person even though they are dependent on you for survival? The fetus will gain consciousness, much like the coma patient, in 8 weeks. That is my problem with the consciousness argument but take it as you will.

      To address the second part of the argument is not my place. I cannot argue the emotional aspect of what a woman goes through when she discovers she is pregnant. All I can say is that I believe in a more inclusive culture where we respect individuals regardless of their age.

      Lastly, your eggs are biologically designed to be shed every month and are not fertilized. Yes, the egg has the capacity for life but is not the same as a 46 chromosomed zygote. Like I said, you have some great points and I like that you are thinking scientifically about the issue. I would encourage you to do some more research on the issue and to continue to challenge yourself. Keep it up!

    • It’s not fertilized…..

  2. you have now entered the grand school of life. a master gives the test and the reward can be great or the suffering never ending. make wise choices based on everything, not just what i want. these choices have long reaching consequences…

  3. Abortion is murder. A fact. A living human being is being killed. The only question is whether you think the state should make it legal to do so or not.

    • You murder your food just to be happy.

    • Counter point, you just got raped, do you still keep the baby?

      • Murder is murder. The circumstances of conception do not change that. It is still a life isn’t it?

        • we are here attending the masters school of life, graduation into heaven for the lucky few. the hardest test given by the master himself…GOD

        • One more point: I suspect you haven’t watched the video. In Ireland and Northern Ireland, the woman is still obligated to carry the baby to term even if it is has been medically proven that the fetus is severely malformed and will suffer considerably and then die immediately after birth. Can you imagine the pain of wanting a baby, finding out that it isn’t viable, and then being forced to go through all the trials of pregnancy while knowing at the end you will give birth to a child who must be buried only a few days later?

          • “medically proven” – what a joke.

            I personally know of two people whose parents were told by their doctors that their children would be born with major medical problems and would probably die within a year. They were both told that their best option was to kill the baby. Neither did. The children had problems but survived. One is now a beautiful young lady who recently graduated from college and is working to help others with her condition. The other has physical problems but appears to be a genius. He has a personality that lights up every room he enters. People love the guy. You seem to think that people who are physically and medically handicapped from birth are worthless and all of them should be killed and not be given a chance to live their lives. Do you realize what you are saying?

            That film was pro-death. Notice that the biggest argument they had against life was about how inconvenient it was for the woman to kill a baby. The mother should be able to walk down to a corner clinic, have her baby killed, then walk home again with a big smile on her face. Like going out for groceries. The film wanted you to think how terrible if the woman is inconvenienced. And if she gets pregnant and it is inconvenient at that time for her, the best option for her is to kill the baby. If she gets pregnant and doesn’t like the color of the babies hair, eyes, or sex, kill the baby. The UK must prescribe placebos for birth control pills or sell condoms with holes in them or there are millions of rapes (where the the victim is not on the pill) because the film said 1/3 of the women in the UK have killed their babies. Just think about that.

            And think about the mental condition of that poor woman who spoke to the crowd about how she was inconvenienced when she wanted to kill her child. I could see guilt and anger and frustration written all over her face at what she had done. That is typical of women who undergo abortions. Carrying and having a child is a special gift only women are given and the women who have done it hold dear the bond they developed with that child the moment it was conceived. That bond exists for the woman’s lifetime. And if she murders that child, unless she is a psychopath, the guilt she will feel will last her entire life.

        • Maybe because the “unborn child” cannot feel pain, and isn’t sentient yet. And what about the punishment of the mother, who is aware of her own existence and would suffer greatly if forced to bear her rapist’s baby? Pregnancy can be a gift when a child is wanted, but even in the best of cases it is always an enormous labour of love and a burden, physically and mentally. It changes your body permanently and can cause lifelong health issues. It is not simply a nine month event that ends and resolves itself once the baby pops out and is handed off to a couple who is eager to adopt.

          Having to go through that when you are carrying a baby you desperately want is difficult enough, but lots of women will say that it’s worth it because the end result is a child to love. Having to deal with all the pain and discomfort and physical changes while growing the child of a man who violated and forcibly impregnated you is a form of torture.

          Murder may be murder, but murder involves people, not hypothetical people who are developing inside the body of a human being whose rights are at least as important as that of an unfeeling, non-sentient fetus.

          Based on your comment history I know that this is an issue you feel very strongly about and that there’s no way you’re going to agree with me. Don’t feel obligated to respond–I won’t. (It’s pretty obvious we’d just get into a big argument and that’s frankly a waste of my time, and probably yours as well.) I just thought I’d give you another perspective on this issue.

          • “hypothetical people who are developing inside the body of a human”

            And when exactly does that hypothetical people who are developing inside the body of a human become a real person? By using the vague term “hypothetical person” you are avoiding recognizing what is in a mother’s womb is a living, growing, developing human being.

            Many people say the moment the baby leaves the birth canal.

            Many people say when the baby is sentient or can feel pain, however they define that.

            All of us start out the same way and, if your are lucky and your mother doesn’t kill you because she won’t have enough money for another piece of face metal, get a chance to enjoy life for a long time.