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College Conspiracy

“College education is the largest scam in U.S. history!” – From NIA, Nationa Inflation Association

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  1. 4/10
    – Footage variety was low, but considering the topic is “higher education is fraudulent,” this is to be expected.  They generally show animations of charts and figures, with some interview or miscellaneous scenes.
    – Most figures and statistics reported in the film were quoted or sourced to the film producer, so bias should be assumed, but at least is not being hidden.
    – Makes many claims that seem hard to believe, like, “Commodity industries are the most important for economies” (Despite many countries economies being driven by addding value to commodities, i.e. “I bought your wood, made it a house, and sold it back to you for more”), “Lawyers in government are trying to make more jobs for their lawyer friends” (Seems like just a jab at Obama being a lawyer), “Goldman Sachs has never produced wealth for America” (While this might be technically true by some interpretation, it is hard to conceive that the faciliatation of investment does not aid economic growth — even if only growth of others).
    – This film discusses a few (perhaps commonly known) truths about the poorer qualities of Higher Education, but then deviates into political disucussions and investment advice.  The fact that the investment advice (“buy precious metals”), and politcal views are the same as advocated by News Corporation certainly could be a poorly hidden use of propaganda.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/News_Corporationhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_techniques
    – To the credit of the film, and from my own experience, I personally know of cases where: (1) College students have used student loands for more than just education — note thought that this is intended, since it is understood that working while schooling is damn hard and possibly counter productive (study rather than waiting tables); (2) Colleges not emphasizing learning (stereotypical “degree mill” behavior); (3) College graduates not working in the fields of their degree due to shortage of work or because their degree was not exceptional (Just one example is a local A&B Sound (audio system retailer) that employed three of my friends (Physicist, 2 CompSci, all with BSc). It was these examples and several more than enticed me to watch the film, since I knew a lot could have been said on this topic. It is unfortunate that not a lot on this topic was discussed thoroughly.

    • A small remark on your last comment:
      I find it hard to believe that taking a college degree in CompSci doesn´t allow you to get a decent job. Even with the economic crisis and lack of jobs, those areas are always explorable. Afterall CompSci is the future of technology along with many engineering fields according to varias reports on future market demands.

      I do partly agree with the movie shown above – that is: encouraging student to go to college and take huge loans with the promise of bright futures is troublesome and misleading youth into an accumulated debt. Could we do without such a debt? Can you step up your carrier without a diploma and even shortening the process, by ambitiously investing yourself into work. Yes and yes.

      However I think some of their statements sounds so singlesided and manipulative – especially the annoying guy, Gerald Gelente, from trendsresearch who ties political, social and financial agendas together into an ongoing statement of how corrupt and disfunctional society is. Usually after a statement like that you would expect a counterstatement, which extracts the essence of the message given, as college beeing a scam.

      I think this documentary cannot be discarded, even with all the flaws it posseses. I think it´s wrong to say: “STAY AWAY, it´s an ADVERT”. Just because some of it seems designed even with a hidden message to buy metal and apply to NIA newsmedia source, it would, in my opinion, be naive to ignore such information all together.

      I agree with you Brevan, that such information should be discussed thoroughly, perhaps with the backing of different sources to put it more into perspective.

    • A small remark on your last comment:
      I find it hard to believe that taking a college degree in CompSci doesn´t allow you to get a decent job. Even with the economic crisis and lack of jobs, those areas are always explorable. Afterall CompSci is the future of technology along with many engineering fields according to varias reports on future market demands.

      I do partly agree with the movie shown above – that is: encouraging student to go to college and take huge loans with the promise of bright futures is troublesome and misleading youth into an accumulated debt. Could we do without such a debt? Can you step up your carrier without a diploma and even shortening the process, by ambitiously investing yourself into work. Yes and yes.

      However I think some of their statements sounds so singlesided and manipulative – especially the annoying guy, Gerald Gelente, from trendsresearch who ties political, social and financial agendas together into an ongoing statement of how corrupt and disfunctional society is. Usually after a statement like that you would expect a counterstatement, which extracts the essence of the message given, as college beeing a scam.

      I think this documentary cannot be discarded, even with all the flaws it posseses. I think it´s wrong to say: “STAY AWAY, it´s an ADVERT”. Just because some of it seems designed even with a hidden message to buy metal and apply to NIA newsmedia source, it would, in my opinion, be naive to ignore such information all together.

      I agree with you Brevan, that such information should be discussed thoroughly, perhaps with the backing of different sources to put it more into perspective.

  2. My anti-virus alerted me that virus Exploit:win 32 pdf.PE is lurking somewhere around this site.

  3. That it’s produced by the “National Inflation Association” is all the information that is needed to demonstrate the value of this video, see:

    http://www.guerillastocktrading.com/commodities/the-national-inflation-association

  4. Research your loan specifics… bit sensationalized. Agree that this is NOT a documentary.

  5. Research your loan specifics… bit sensationalized. Agree that this is NOT a documentary.

  6. Research your loan specifics… bit sensationalized. Agree that this is NOT a documentary.

  7.  I think everyone should watch this presentation before going to college… Actually, I’m glad that more people didn’t as there are that many less people in my field of IT with security and networking now. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2i7NraNYe8&feature=related (just get through the first part as basically the first half of the first video is an introduction, it gets good at the second part)

    But yeah it basically goes over which degrees are worthless.

  8. I find you have to take certain facts and trends they purpose in this video with a grain of salt

  9. This is NOT a documentary and should be removed. BEWARE, this video is an ADVERTISEMENT.  It builds up to its call to action with a lot of right wing propaganda specifically designed to appeal to the sensibilities of Americans BUT the fact is, it’s advertising a product. Don’t bother.

  10. This is NOT a documentary and should be removed. BEWARE, this video is an ADVERTISEMENT.  It builds up to its call to action with a lot of right wing propaganda specifically designed to appeal to the sensibilities of Americans BUT the fact is, it’s advertising a product. Don’t bother.

    • Haha, I just watched the whole fucking thing, thinking it was becoming more of a comercial as it went on. By the end, I knew I had been duped. I’m glad it wasn’t just paranoid thinking.

  11. a good degree at a good college is still likely to improve your life opportunities a great deal. but the benefits of a mediocre degree at a mediocre college are rapidly sinking beneath the costs

  12. This is a thinly veiled commercial for the gold and silver commodities trading industry. The figures they give are highly exaggerated. The whole film serves as a scare tactic to discourage people from working toward a higher education. As an obvious propaganda tactic for the gold/silver industry, ultimately, the film suggests in a less than neutral tone that everyone should drop out of college, work for McDonald’s and invest whatever little money they earn into gold or silver. Got to love the unnecessarily long shpiel given by the guy at the end, whom I suppose is the biased voice guiding you through the entire commercial, err, I mean documentary (??). The appealing style it has while watching and eerie feeling of being somewhat brainwashed afterwards might have something to do with it being funded by special interests.

  13.  i love the way the main picture is the library in trinity college dublin. Apart from this amusing prelude it is an appallingly trivial documentary aimed and uneducated americans trivial documentary aimed and uneducated americans

  14.  i love the way the main picture is the library in trinity college dublin. Apart from this amusing prelude it is an appallingly trivial documentary aimed and uneducated americans trivial documentary aimed and uneducated americans

  15. I enjoy Celente..he’s delightful..hehe    You know, it’s amazing how these things can be created but not destroyed…Money is nothing but numbers in a computer. It’s not a thing, it’s not real, it has no ontology. One hit of the delete button and everything is GONE.

  16. I enjoy Celente..he’s delightful..hehe    You know, it’s amazing how these things can be created but not destroyed…Money is nothing but numbers in a computer. It’s not a thing, it’s not real, it has no ontology. One hit of the delete button and everything is GONE.

  17. I enjoy Celente..he’s delightful..hehe    You know, it’s amazing how these things can be created but not destroyed…Money is nothing but numbers in a computer. It’s not a thing, it’s not real, it has no ontology. One hit of the delete button and everything is GONE.

  18.  yeah, whatever, but there is something more important than income, and that little thing is knowledge…

    • And you don’t need college to gain knowledge, you need a thirst for knowledge

      • Thumbs up! If I could, I would just read about stuff all day, but I gotta get that special little piece of paper that employers look at and say, “Now we can pay you”, dammit!
        The system kinda sucks, but unless you march and boycott and other stuff, it’s the one we’re stuck with, eh?

        • That’s why I’ve made MIT grads feel stupid? I have a HS degree no college and can school anyone on how to operate million dollar pieces of equipment. Also how to find problems and fix it. It’s also something COLLEGE WON’T teach you. I wanted to learn. Those who don’t in my field are stuck cleaning toilets and never make it. You probably think second hand smoke is the number 1 cause of lung cancer in nonsmokers too. Ahhh how I love brainwashing.

  19.  seems like they started with their viewpoint (hardcore libertarianism) and produced a documentary using information which they had pre approved. this isn’t so much a documentary as it is a propaganda piece that reinforces their position and drives people to their website. the entire thing can be boiled down to “BUY GOLD AND SILVER”. they as much as say so a number of times. some ideas brought up here were worth further investigation, but it got to be a little much…

  20.  seems like they started with their viewpoint (hardcore libertarianism) and produced a documentary using information which they had pre approved. this isn’t so much a documentary as it is a propaganda piece that reinforces their position and drives people to their website. the entire thing can be boiled down to “BUY GOLD AND SILVER”. they as much as say so a number of times. some ideas brought up here were worth further investigation, but it got to be a little much…

  21.  seems like they started with their viewpoint (hardcore libertarianism) and produced a documentary using information which they had pre approved. this isn’t so much a documentary as it is a propaganda piece that reinforces their position and drives people to their website. the entire thing can be boiled down to “BUY GOLD AND SILVER”. they as much as say so a number of times. some ideas brought up here were worth further investigation, but it got to be a little much…

  22.  seems like they started with their viewpoint (hardcore libertarianism) and produced a documentary using information which they had pre approved. this isn’t so much a documentary as it is a propaganda piece that reinforces their position and drives people to their website. the entire thing can be boiled down to “BUY GOLD AND SILVER”. they as much as say so a number of times. some ideas brought up here were worth further investigation, but it got to be a little much…

  23.  seems like they started with their viewpoint (hardcore libertarianism) and produced a documentary using information which they had pre approved. this isn’t so much a documentary as it is a propaganda piece that reinforces their position and drives people to their website. the entire thing can be boiled down to “BUY GOLD AND SILVER”. they as much as say so a number of times. some ideas brought up here were worth further investigation, but it got to be a little much…

  24.  This documentary is ridiculous and highly biased. My parents, who only have high school degrees, are lucky to make a little more than 30k a year. I suppose my simple degree in education that I will get in year will be worthless when I start making around 45k in my area my first year teaching (and that is just with a BS). Today you have to have a four year degree to work as a manager of Toys R Us, so encouraging people to not go to college is just destroying the education and possibilities of young Americans. Also, I do agree that this seems very fox newsy.

  25.  This documentary is ridiculous and highly biased. My parents, who only have high school degrees, are lucky to make a little more than 30k a year. I suppose my simple degree in education that I will get in year will be worthless when I start making around 45k in my area my first year teaching (and that is just with a BS). Today you have to have a four year degree to work as a manager of Toys R Us, so encouraging people to not go to college is just destroying the education and possibilities of young Americans. Also, I do agree that this seems very fox newsy.

    • I think youmiss a big point being made. Your parents are probably of a generation where many fewer people had a college degree. Now that 70% or more will have degrees, where is the competitive advantage. Your parent are not entering the job market. Someone your age entering the job market when you entered colleged will be making income minus the debt. 45k a year is ok, but not when you have 200k in debt as soon as you get the degree. Whos better off, someone earning 20k a year without any debt or someone earning 45k with 200k debt?

    • I think youmiss a big point being made. Your parents are probably of a generation where many fewer people had a college degree. Now that 70% or more will have degrees, where is the competitive advantage. Your parent are not entering the job market. Someone your age entering the job market when you entered colleged will be making income minus the debt. 45k a year is ok, but not when you have 200k in debt as soon as you get the degree. Whos better off, someone earning 20k a year without any debt or someone earning 45k with 200k debt?

      • First of all, no reasonable person will have 200k in debt. You’re stupid if you do. Like actually dumb. (I know that last sentence isn’t grammatically correct). Secondly, just people most people will have college degrees doesn’t mean that having one isn’t valuable. In fact, it’s more valuable now.  With your theory, why would you go to school at all and get a high school degree? Why go to school at all? In general, you need a college degree to get a good job, and that’s just the way it is.

        PS- It’s better to have 200k in debt and make 45k a year. Do the math.

      • First of all, no reasonable person will have 200k in debt. You’re stupid if you do. Like actually dumb. (I know that last sentence isn’t grammatically correct). Secondly, just people most people will have college degrees doesn’t mean that having one isn’t valuable. In fact, it’s more valuable now.  With your theory, why would you go to school at all and get a high school degree? Why go to school at all? In general, you need a college degree to get a good job, and that’s just the way it is.

        PS- It’s better to have 200k in debt and make 45k a year. Do the math.

    • I do believe alot of what is being said pertains to the cost. I agree some jobs require a degree, however trade schools aren’t getting the reputation they should have. A less expensive alternative with high job rates. Another view is to possibly work at ToyrUs as a cashier and let them pay for your school if they think you are worthy of being a manager. After all, who wants a $30,000 bill without a job?

  26. this feels a little fox newsy (or maybe AM talk radioy)

    • What most of you people do not seem to get that the government is the reason that College is gouging you all with sky high coasts and like anything else when government get its greasy hands in anything it ruins it. But just keep on believing that the government is there for in every single way. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. But i don’t think this is even good intentions!!!

    • What most of you people do not seem to get that the government is the reason that College is gouging you all with sky high coasts and like anything else when government get its greasy hands in anything it ruins it. But just keep on believing that the government is there for in every single way. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. But i don’t think this is even good intentions!!!

  27. This is a crock.  The most specious reasoning I think I’ve ever heard.  Also outright lies.  A high school graduate makes $35,000 a year ?  And you are going to deduct that times 6 years I spend in college even after you stipulate I made a million more than he did.?  Hey genius, it doesn’t matter how long I spend in college if I made  a million than he did.  Its not an expense.  And what about the facts you see at 32:23 ? Yeah the one that shows in-state public university costs at a mere $7020 a year ? Your graphics not mine. Only private college costs approach the crap you’re floating out there.  I love that thing about if everybody has a degree then mine is worthless.  100% of all doctors have a degree.  100% of all engineers have a degree.  Better call them up and tell them about their worthless degrees.  Its not how many have a degree, its the field of your degree.  What a crock.

    • Uhmmm I’m an engineer without a degree. Learn some facts you dumbshit. Historically a College was to philosophize. Now it’s to learn a discipline? How did a Dr become a Dr before College’s taught them? How did lawyers become lawyers before the College taught them? Who came up the basis for making certain things taught to earn a degree in a certain field? For someone with knowledge and that looks for facts I have seen basically zero. Sorry for being a skeptic but seems pretty scammy to me, and our a dumbass.

    • Umm, yes the 35,000 is an expense. You are earning 35,000 (assuming the figure from above) less during the six years in college as the alternative of taking the 35,000 job was foregone. Simple maths, seems the video is right!

      • See reply to Lenko.  Also do not forget they stipulated that I made a million more in my lifetime.  If I made a million  more than he did that has to include his $35000/yr while I was in school. The key word is more.

    •  “Hey genius, it doesn’t matter how long I spend in college if I made  a million than he did.  Its not an expense.”

      ????

    •  “Hey genius, it doesn’t matter how long I spend in college if I made  a million than he did.  Its not an expense.”

      ????

      •  Their premise is that if I make a million more than a high school graduate I have to deduct lost income for the years spent in college as a cost of the degree.  That cost is calculated  as 6yrs times the amount the high school graduate made while I was in college. First, another persons income is in no way a cost to me.  It doesn’t matter how much he makes, because the given is I will still make a million more than he.  What is being done essentially by their lack of reasoning is that I would have to make a million plus 6yrs times the HS graduates income.  Yet if I make a million more than he I’ve already covered what he earned during that six yrs.  By their figuring I’ll have to cover it and apply it as a cost to my education.  Can’t have it both ways.  Either they know this and are being specious or their reasoning is greatly flawed.

        •  Their point is that while you are studying, your effective gross additional income is reduced when used in comparison to a non-graduate. Therefore you are not making an additional 1million gross, than a non graduate.

          And thats IF you find a job in your field after graduating.

          • I understand your point and thanks for your reply. Let me try an analogy.  You and I work at the same job.  You make $125/wk and I make $1000/mo.  You say that’s not fair.  I say you get paid by the week but I get paid only after the month is up.  There fore You must subtract your income from mine because what you make is an expense to me.  So $1000 minus 4 weeks at $125 = $500. See we get paid the same.

            That is if we can get a job after graduating.

          • I understand your point and thanks for your reply. Let me try an analogy.  You and I work at the same job.  You make $125/wk and I make $1000/mo.  You say that’s not fair.  I say you get paid by the week but I get paid only after the month is up.  There fore You must subtract your income from mine because what you make is an expense to me.  So $1000 minus 4 weeks at $125 = $500. See we get paid the same.

            That is if we can get a job after graduating.

          • You failed math huh? The video cleary stated how you got in the debt. You’re pretty stupid to make such a shit analogy. A month is typically 4 weeks. 4wx$125=$500mo $1000mo-$500mo=$500 or just go $500mo-$1000mo=-$500 ohh god that’s 500 more bucks a month. Also getting a job at 14 and keeping one for over 15 years is very easy. So that’s 4 years before college PLUS 4 years why dumbasses were in college. Say I made 5.50 an hr  the whole time, part time first 4, full last 4. 5.50×20=110×4=440×12=5280×4=21120 5.50×40=220×4=880×12=10560×4=42240+21120=63360 So that’s $63,360 income. 7020×4=28080 So there’s $28,080 in tuition. This is without inflation or cost of books and housing. Let’s add 3% per year interest for 4 years. That’s a damn good car loan btw. I=Prt I=(28080)(.003)(4)=336.96 So thats only a lil over 300 bucks in interest (hells yea) So college with no job just cost you IN STATE with NO inflation $28,416.96. So I have still 63360-28416.96=34943.04 more than you. Let’s say we are 24 going 40 years at the same rate how much more money will you make if you make 50% more than me. 5.50x.5=2.75+5.50=7.75 So your income is $7.50. 7.50×40=300×52=15600×40=624000 So in 40 years you make $624,000 let’s look at me. 5.50×40=220×52=11440×40=457600 So I make $457,600 in 40 years plus what I’m up on you so I have 457600+34943.04=492543.04 what I already had on you plus my 40 yrs income. So 624000-492543.04=131456.96 So in 40 years you make $131,456.96 more than me while you made 50% more than me the whole time. So I’d have to work an extra 12 years to get where you got. So I’d be 74 before I could kick back while you’d be chilling since 62. Looks good on paper I have to admit. I did scew my numbers and yes a degree may give you more money in a lifetime but maybe 4-5 additional years worth of work I’d say. But the video even did show that YES a college degree would still grant you about a half a million more in a lifetime. Question though is then would you be working the same position as the non grad who went into the workforce and learned hands on while you just got a piece of paper? Then you’d actually be making less than a non college grad.

          • Too bad that “piece of paper” is the thing that employers who will pay you that 100k are looking for! Since I didn’t want to work at McDonald’s, which I could’ve, for the rest of my life, I went back to school, completed my degree and got a job I love, working with people I love to serve for more money than I ever dreamed of. All because I went an “just got a pieve of paper”. I’m not saying that I’m special or anything, it’s just he goal I set out to do in my life, and I did it. Hell the world needs plumbers, electricians, and other non-college educated people too! And from what the plumber charged me the last time he was here, he makin good money too!

          • Just to note: of course you should be able to make more money with a degree as it was the corporations that funded the colleges in the first place to teach people the things they wanted them to know to be able to work.

            Those who view education simply as a pay check may not have a problem with that, but others like myself who prefer to learn for the sake of learning and who realize that often times what they want you to learn isn’t the complete and honest truth do have a problem with it.

            Wasting all that time and actually paying to be programmed with information that in may areas is far from being certified truth(mainly in science and history, both of which are “spun” endlessly for political agendas) is not productive to me.

            You can make a million more dollars than me if you want, but when the system folds and that million more dollars becomes worthless paper or numbers and we’re back to being on equal footing I will at least know I didn’t waste my time on that worthless crap as you have.

            I did not learn about photovoltaics, electrostatics, consumer-gas technology or anything like that from a college, but I guarantee that knowledge will be far more useful than a degree from any college if and when the system comes undone(except maybe a survivalist college, lol).

            I may be crazy, but I’m debt-free and mostly happy crazy, and prepared for almost anything.

          • @e6842847d7903fef79486251a3bb9b6e:disqus

            I did learn about photovoltaics, electrostatics, consumer-gas technology
            and lots of other neato ideas while completing  my
            undergrad/masters degrees in electrical engineering.  I highly doubt
            6 years of college education is as worthless as you make it seem.  This
            is not my experience at least.

          • Johnny-
            Are you in a crazy right wing cult? Cause this message makes me feel like it. You know that not everything is a conspiracy right?

          • Johnny-
            Are you in a crazy right wing cult? Cause this message makes me feel like it. You know that not everything is a conspiracy right?

          •  Johnny – I’m not making a judgement here. I agree with you. The point I’m making is that their math and reasoning is garbage.

          • Fair enough, I agree with that.

            Any math on this type of thing is going to be troublesome, how do you take into account people who transfer college tuition debts to say their credit cards?(as too many people I know have)

            Which they end up just racking up their debts even further as they keep spending more money incurring new debts rather than paying off existing ones and such.

            Or those people who say I have a degree in whatever and can now make 100k+ a year, so even though I don’t have the money yet I’m gonna go out and get a fancy car or a mortgage for a house and put myself into a debt that I will likely never get paid off as I keep adding to it…

            You may make a million more dollars but that doesn’t help if you spend 2 million more at the same time…lol.

            Balancing budgets and proper spending habits and such should be a mandatory course for all students(in HS and college to refresh their memory..), that would solve a lot of problems itself I’m sure.

          •  You are right on the money(pun intended now everybody groan). The reality is exactly what you say.

          •  You are right on the money(pun intended now everybody groan). The reality is exactly what you say.

          • Fair enough, I agree with that.

            Any math on this type of thing is going to be troublesome, how do you take into account people who transfer college tuition debts to say their credit cards?(as too many people I know have)

            Which they end up just racking up their debts even further as they keep spending more money incurring new debts rather than paying off existing ones and such.

            Or those people who say I have a degree in whatever and can now make 100k+ a year, so even though I don’t have the money yet I’m gonna go out and get a fancy car or a mortgage for a house and put myself into a debt that I will likely never get paid off as I keep adding to it…

            You may make a million more dollars but that doesn’t help if you spend 2 million more at the same time…lol.

            Balancing budgets and proper spending habits and such should be a mandatory course for all students(in HS and college to refresh their memory..), that would solve a lot of problems itself I’m sure.

          •  Johnny – I’m not making a judgement here. I agree with you. The point I’m making is that their math and reasoning is garbage.

          • The video is saying that if you are in college for six years then you cannot be earning 35000 p/y during that time. So you must deduct this lost earning from your overall lifetime salary. Therefore you do not earn 1 million more but 1 million minus the lost income.

          •  I believe the site is having problems. On my screen comments and replies are getting out of order.  Think of it this way.  My employer is willing to pay me a million more (more more more remember -more) in my lifetime. It doesn’t matter when he pays it to me.  It is only important that I make a million more.  I can sit in school for 20 years and it doesn’t matter because he is going to pay me a million more. If you make a million he’s going to pay me a 2 million. Now I make a million more than you. Now I have two million.  Should I give a million back  as expenses. Then if I do, yes, then I don’t have but a million.  But I have two million because he paid me a million more than you.,

          •  I believe when they said a million more they did not account for 6 years of unpaid education. It doesn’t matter anyways, trades and hands on skills are definitely where young people should be focused towards.

            For people who don’t get the million more its like year one HSG +35,000, CG -27,000 ; Year 2 HSG +70,000, CG -54,000 ; year 3 etc. Year 6 HSG + 210,000, CG -162,000; year 10 HSG +350,000, CG(4 years at $100,000 income -living expenses etc) break even; year 20 HSG +800,000(raise), CG 1.2 million(raise)

          • VnGo – I believe they specifically stipulated MORE. IN fact every time this is mentioned they use the word MORE. Now if they  didn’t mean more they should have stipulated that. 
            I was just pointing to the fact these people are being dishonest in not only this but in about every statistic they use especially the statistic  of college costs. Go to 32:23 and look at the graphic.  I cannot figure how they came up with the cost they are using.
            Thanks for your reply.

  28.  I like the points brought up, and I think there’s definitely something to be said here, but it got really preachy and that one old dude is annoying as fuck

  29.  I like the points brought up, and I think there’s definitely something to be said here, but it got really preachy and that one old dude is annoying as fuck

  30.  I like the points brought up, and I think there’s definitely something to be said here, but it got really preachy and that one old dude is annoying as fuck

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