The Trouble With Atheism

The Trouble with Atheism is an hour-long documentary on atheism, presented by Rod Liddle. It aired on Channel 4 in December 2006. The documentary focuses on criticizing atheism, as well as science, for its perceived similarities to religion, as well as arrogance and intolerance. The programme includes interviews with a number of prominent scientists, including atheists Richard Dawkins and Peter Atkins and Anglican priest John Polkinghorne. It also includes an interview with Ellen Johnson, the president of American Atheists.

Liddle begins the documentary by surveying common criticisms of religion, and particularly antireligious arguments based on the prevalence of religious violence. He argues that the “very stupid human craving for certainty and justification”, not religion, is to blame for this violence, and that atheism is becoming just as dogmatic as religion.

In order to support his thesis, Liddle presents numerous examples of actions and words by atheists which he argues are direct parallels of religious attitudes. He characterizes Atkins and Dawkins as “fundamentalist atheists” and “evangelists”.

In response to atheistic appeals to science as a superior method for understanding the world than religion, Liddle argues that science itself is akin to religion: “the problem for atheists is that science may not be as far away from religion as you might imagine”.

He describes Fermilab, a U.S. Department of Energy National Laboratory focused on particle physics, as a “temple to science”, and characterizes Charles Darwin’s The Origin of Species as a “sacred text” for atheists.

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  1. You found some idiotic atheists, well done.

    Its interesting that the interviewer is using the scientific method, socratic questioning, and basing criticism against the framework of liberal democratic freedoms.

    To make this a better documentary, perhaps challenge the claim directly in atheism that “there is no god.”

    How would you even do this? use the bible, use the koran “there is no god but me”.

    How about looking at historical evidence, and cross matching the likelihood of God’s existence based on multiple events. Oh, no… you’ve just uncovered the scientific method, and become an atheist while trying to proving God’s existence.

    What a dilemma

  2. Thank God I’m an atheist.

  3. LOL What a horribly biased mockumentary. Atheists don’t choose to believe what they do just like Christians or Muslims don’t. We are convinced by the evidence we are presented… or aren’t. We don’t have dogmas, we don’t follow leaders or have membership requirements, nor is atheism a religion. Theists claim there is a god. We aren’t convinced by the evidence. Anything else that is claimed about atheists is personal and not universal… just like no two theists believe the same things. This whole video is bullshit.

  4. He sure likes pointing the camera at himself.

  5. atheism don’t have respect for the Christian martyrs burn to death that converted the world from human sacrifice of paganism to Christian Jesus who gives a damn about your soul and its follower CHrisitians are sinners and not 100% follw up .but it would be unfair to shame Christians who destroyed barbarism worshipping stones or cult pagan in England stonehenge , baalbek romans etc

  6. Nice article, nice info for who is suffering from anxiety and depression.

  7. Im not an atheist because i praise George Carlin on a daily basis.

  8. ah yes who tf believes in a giant space wizard, who gets mad for shits

  9. What Stalin or Hitler did to the World got nothing to do with Atheism or Religion the both of these characters are narcissistic sociopaths extremely weak people and this is what they do ,self importance and constant admiration from others are fundamental priorities for these assholes…sometimes nature weave a prank to as all in form of these two mention above.

  10. I believe a person should be allowed to believe in what they want as long as it or they don’t harm the environment or other living beings. Do you want to be an atheist? Go ahead, no issue. You want to believe in only one god, like Christians, Muslims, and Jews? No issue, again. Do you want multiple gods, like the Ancient Greeks, Ancient Romans, and Ancient Egyptians? Nobody is holding you back. Why can’t we allow people to practice their beliefs if those beliefs don’t directly harm anybody or anything? Why do you have to domineer over people’s will? Why do you have to be right? Perhaps, it is because you are insecure. Look deep within yourself, and fix your issues before you go “helping” others. Those atheists that said believers of god were dumb, they are no better than the believers then. Letting people have a choice in their beliefs, once again, if those beliefs don’t harm anything or anyone, is the only method humans can adapt to bring peace in every corner of the world. Easier said than done as many people, including some people in the comment section (looking at u MMA Miami, and Zan), can’t sit a second without harassing other people’s peaceful beliefs. Stay at home, research before you speak, and help your brothers and sisters in need.

  11. I like Atheists.
    Taste just like chicken.

  12. Atheists are pathetic and disgruntled turds.

  13. Atheists are pussies.

    • religion sucks balls

      • Nice brotherly love from the Christian commenters, I see. I don’t care what a person believes or doesn’t believe…but the second they get political, they should lose their tax exempt status. Atheists and agnostics have to pay taxes and have the freedom to speak our minds; focus on your worshiping and, hopefully, good works helping them needy and infirm, and I’ll happily pick up your tab.

        But I shouldn’t pay a dime for people who allow politics to corrupt and twist their doctrines. I’m done with supporting hypocrites. .

        And Christians? If you truly follow the teachings of Christ, maybe you should strive to *practice* his teachings. I doubt Jesus would approve of the nasty comments above. In fact, I know he wouldn’t. I’ve actually *read* the Bible. And Jesus doesn’t like ugly.

  14. There is no god nothing,but a pile of shit.

  15. I’m an atheist but support christianity as a basis of our culture and civilisation, which is in decline and threatened by islam. I rarely talk about atheism and never promote it because the vast majority of people might be better off with their christian beliefs. As for islam, we don’t have a choice and the west must unite, respond to war and annihilate it. Sure, war is hell and at this point of time we are losing it. We have a moral duty to our children, to our own descendants to ensure they enjoy the same freedom and prosperity which we have taken for granted.

  16. You’re right. There is a problem with atheism. A true non-belief in a God does not require a name, in the same way that I have no need of a name for my disbelief in leprechauns. Someone who truly doesn’t believe in a God would not refer to himself as an atheist. This document is not about people who don’t believe in God. It is about people who can’t think on a conceptual level. They share this in common with religious people. Not believing in God does not require meetings, tv shows, support groups. One does not need Darwin to support a non-belief. One only has to ask, “What is the root of all human health, progress, happiness, education and accomplishment”? Spend a decade finding honest answers to this question and you’ll find that you’ll be pleasantly liberated from having to choose between religion and atheism.

    • So you’re disgruntled because of your name – atheist.
      You can’t see it little Steven but I am now playing my tiny violin in your honor.

  17. Religion is absolute… All this fuss about it is the very clue. Yet, instead of arguing about the matter of existence, why don’t we study the guiding ethics before rules that they provide – all of them – not just Christianity… For there is an Islam; regardless of whether there are true Muslims nowadays!

  18. I’m not atheist or religious so I decided to watch this with an open mind.

    By ~13 minutes he’s asked 3 different atheists (the “atheist messiah” and the woman with the talk show, I forget the other) the same question after they express their disdain for religious belief: “Isn’t that arrogant?”. That’s obviously a pejorative question not a thought provoking one.

    Then he looks for patterns between science and religion, referring to Darwin’s publication, “Origin of Species”, as an atheist sacred text. He uses the word “darwinism” a lot without giving a clear definition of the word. “To explain how new features, appear suddenly as opposed to gradual evolution” is a rough quote from a voice over. He questions where the mutations in offspring originate. However this doesn’t really feel connected to the final thoughts of the documentary. He then briefly mentions how a cold scientific approach to morality can lead to horrible outcomes. The example being the direct connection from Darwinism to eugenics to Hitler’s vision of a perfect race.

    He ends by saying (which seems to be the whole point of the documentary) that atheism is a belief system (I interpretted that he said it was at least) and that substituting religion (it was not well defined what religions he meant by “religion”) for atheism won’t fix the bad aspects of man’s nature. In other words, swapping a religious belief system for an atheism won’t fix the plagues of humanity like the holocaust or eugenics.

    The documentary had some potential, but I felt it wasn’t as articulate as it could have been. It seems like he wrote the title, “The Trouble with Atheism”, then went out with blinders on looking for said trouble. He looked in all the usual places… he interviewed a god-believing scientist, a vehement god-denying scientist, and he grazed over big topics such as the origin of the universe (big bang) and the origin of man (evolution). There just wasn’t a lot of depth to the documentary. It could probably be extended to contain orders of magnitude more detail, but the documentary wasn’t very clear on what that detail would have been. If this documentary never gets a revision, I wouldn’t recommend it. The only thing that I got out of the documentary was that human nature cultivates suffering whether we believe there’s a god, or if we “believe in science”. There was no mention of how to possibly marry science and religion.

    So the 4/10 rating seems about right.

  19. Charles Darwin’s “Origin of Species” as the “Atheist New Testament”? Umm, what?

    Rod Liddle touches on some interesting points, in this documentary; but it’s presented with such bias and “bending” of facts, that it cannot and should not be taken seriously.

    If you’d really like to learn about atheism, rather than having dogmatic “Us vs Them” views of atheists spouted by a clearly ignorant and arrogant presenter, please take a look at

    • Yeah. It is called allegory, symbolic. Its necessary sometimes to be subtle to exchange an idea. Now you know how It is easy to fall into the trap of being too literal and end up believing in things like creationism. The idea of “come watch this documentary because it gets it right” is hilarious. A closed mind cannot learn.

  20. What a bullshit documentary. He starts out making statements as though they are truth and then following them up. Bullshit. I don’t know any atheists that are dogmatic. Atheists do NOT have buildings that house “atheist dogma” those are called libraries and museums and laboratories. We don’t have a “belief” in disbelief. No, all atheism is, is no belief in gods. That’s it. THAT’S IT. I don’t think all believers are stupid. No, I don’t. And the dictators didn’t do what they did in the NAME of atheism, for the millionth time, they did it because they were dictators who wanted to be treated as gods themselves. They modeled themselves after god, the ultimate dictator.
    And yes, we should show contempt for belief based on faith which is in other words, based on NOTHING! Listen to this blowhard in the doc calling somewhere an atheist lives, the “Lair of a “typical atheist” and describing it with contempt. I can’t watch anymore.
    It’s the old saying, “Tell people there’s any invisible man in the sky and it’s fine. Tell them you don’t believe there’s no invisible man in the sky and they all lose their shit!”
    The way the truth and light IS and SHOULD be based only on evidence and facts and truth, you DOLT!!

    • Damn! I meant to write, “…Tell them you don’t believe there’s an invisible man in the sky and they all lose their shit!” Ruined the whole rant! Lol.

      • no worries, you are not the first person to make that statement during a rant. So that you know, being a monotheist myself, I do not believe in an invisible “man” in the sky either. If you need an example of someone losing their shit, think about this documentary and look in the mirror. If that does not spike your arrogance, consider that atheism is indeed a religion with sacred texts, dogma, ritual and non questionable statements. The difference between the way you present yourself is not that much different than I have observed in fundamental Christians or Muslims.

  21. The latest discoveries about the universe inform us that it is 72% dark energy, 24% dark matter and only 4% visible matter, Earth is an insignificant planet in an insignificant galaxy, that is where all your knowledge, including Darwin’s comes from, and based on this less than 1% of the universe, Dawkins. want me to believe that there is no God? That will eliminate all Math from our knowledge base since the cosmos seem to follow specific patterns detailed by very precise equations, this speaks of an intelligent being. In addition, why science is the only vehicle to acquire knowledge, religion and Christianity in particular molded the character of nations that allowed the greatest expansion of science. With 99% of the universe unexplored, Christianity lights up the path to follow with unparalleled insights.

  22. Well now here’s my two cents it’s called
    K= keep
    I= it
    S= simple
    S= stupid
    I was raise by a catholic family when young force to go to church (that didn’t last long).
    Because I find that the catholic are a bunch of hypocrytes and basicly it’s now a bank more than any other thing.

    On the other hand I’m no monkey or ape of any kind further more I have a soul and my morality comes from it so that makes me a spirituel person with my own set of values.

    I’m a simple man of simple needs who likes his comfort and I take comfort in many things like helping a person in need or being responsable in the way I live my life I’m pro nature (tree huger)
    I’m also a member of Amnesty international since 1997 as a monthly donor I also support SeaSheperd and I think that we are all imputable to the generations to come to leave tthis place in a better shape (like taking trash out of the forest) I must have a few ton’s by now.

    I do not pretend to hold the truth like some do, but I have learned a few lesson’s in my life that I have made mine and I humbly hope that I will be remembered for the way that I have applied them.

    p.s. English is not my native language so please excuse my writing.

  23. “A meme is a cultural virus.”
    Pepe is hurt by your words.

  24. Mix a probable true statement, then throw in a false one with it, is the worst journalism. This man puts word in other peoples mouths that they never said or intended. Darwin results are visible everywhere today as we can see evolution in progress. Virtuously all terrorist attacks are religious based and many are committed by people who just go off one day. The crazies can never be rationalized, the religious use their differing beliefs as rationalization. Thanks for the video anyway, many will see thru the holes, Hyker

  25. Most people have no idea what an antitheist is. Antitheism is an aggressive movement by those who are stridently opposed to anyone having religious thought or perpetuating religion’s presence in the world. The most extreme ranting of antitheists I have read online is very disturbing. One person said it would be a good day to kill Christians. I have caught some pretending to be Christians, posting ridiculous misuse of the bible and ranting like lunatics to make it look like a Christian posted it. I told him I knew he was trolling and he just laughed at me. These are not “reasonable, intelligent” people. They are easily misled into thinking they have a ticket to harm others, and are as bad as any example they give against religions.

    • What does that have to do with atheism? Atheism is a (lack of) theism (religion). Atheists generally dont give a damn about others religions, they only get aggravated when theists come harass them.

      • He is giving an example of some of the aggressive forms of so-called “atheism” which is, in fact, “antitheism.” And actually a great number of the atheists I’ve read online are absolutely triggered by theists without being harassed at all. Not all, never all, but many.

  26. Some folk believe that there is a God, and as shown here, others believe that there are no Gods at all. But most importantly, they both stick to their beliefs, just like glue.

    If you are directly connected to the truth, then you need not be dependent upon a belief. If a person is not connected to the truth, and thus in turn is located at a distance from the truth, the person is therefore located within a zone of “less than truth”. Only when located within this zone of “less than truth”, may the person become dependent upon a belief.

    And so if you chose to stick to your belief, rather than use it as a starting point to begin your venture toward the truth, you therefore chose to stick to being permanently positioned at a distance from the truth. In turn, you have refused to ever accept the truth itself. Thus today, neither the religious nor the atheists would be able to see the truth, even if it was positioned directly in front of them.

    • Geez, K. Sean, just speak honest, simple words. If people could be more tolerant of each other the world would be far simpler. The problem with your comments about truth is that it is your truth of which you speak, not necessarily someone else’s.

      • I just look in the direction of truth. I do not make the truths that already exist.
        People can have different beliefs, but truth is truth and no one can change it.

        If you were a high school drop out, but you too tend to look in the direction of truth, then you too can discover Einstein’s Special theory of Relativity, and do so simply by looking into the truth of the basic structure of reality.

        You look. You see. It is as simple as that.

        Thus to not be able to do such a thing can only occur if you choose to live in a fantasy land of beliefs and dis-beliefs instead. Unfortunately, that applies to over 99% of today’s population.

      • There is no such a thing as “Your Truth”. There is such a thing as “Your Belief”.

        Truth is truth. Nobody can change that.

        As I have stated elsewhere, I don’t accept beliefs. For instance, it is often said that seeing is believing. Since a belief is located at a distance from the truth, and is thus located within the zone of “less than truth”, I don’t accept what I see as being the actual truth. In turn I long ago did not accept my eyes interpretation of the “motion” of objects. I knew that there was a bigger picture. So I analyzed motion in my spare time. Eventually I figured out what was really going on. I then converted my new understanding of motion into mathematical equations.

        I was shocked to find out later on that my equations were identical to each of the mathematical equations that are related to Albert Einstein’s theory of Special Relativity(SR). So I had discovered SR independently, and did so in a manner that is different from Einstein’s method. Plus the way in which I had independently derived the mathematical equations, was, and still is to this day, 100% unique.

        Thus if you live in a land of beliefs and dis-beliefs, you do not know the basic structure of reality itself. But if you search for what lies beyond mere beliefs and dis-beliefs, and do so by looking with your mind in the direction of truth, the discovery of SR is an easy breezy task, since the true reality is sitting right there in front of you.

    • I had trouble understanding what you said. What is this truth you speak of? Most atheists would probably change their mind about a God if the theists could show empirical evidence of their God claim. I disagree about both theists and atheists sticking to their beliefs like glue because people can and do change their minds. You either except the claim or you don’t. If you reject a God claim you are not asserting that it is false. The problem is is that most religious claims are unfalsifiable like “God lives outside our natural universe”. The time to believe in something is when you have a good reason to believe in it. Unfortunately, people can believe in things for the wrong reasons. That is why today education is important, so people can see this “truth” or whatever it is you speak of. People need to learn how to think, and not be told what to think. I don’t think people are unable to “see the truth”. Sure there is some stuff we can’t observe due to our technical limitations etc, but there is no reason to assert any supernatural being or God because of it. Science does not disprove God, but science sure has pushed God further back in hiding if anything. Science deals with the natural world and we know that the natural world is very big.

      • God managed to place both proof of his existence, and proof of Jesus Christ’s existence, within the Bible, and did so in such a clever yet simple and unique encoded manner.

        To see this encoded proof, go to

        Then click on the flashing words “Watch / Listen”, and let the webpage take you on a webpage tour of such proof, and do so via automatic web page scrolling and complete audio coverage.

        However, “believers/dis-believers” can not see truth in this webpage, for they always choose to remain at a distance from the truth.

  27. Documentary loses relevance

  28. Starts great by highlight some atheists fundamentalist beliefs that are akin to religious fundamentalist. Toward the end it begins to devolve by inferring the theory of natural selection ultimately leads to eugenics. Finally it asserts morality is only possible through the guidance of religion. After that I couldn’t bare watching the last 10min. There is a reason this video has 4 stars. It’s poorly researched and clearly aims to persuade the viewer.. Move on.

  29. Considering the subject matter and a low rating, I knew it would be a thoughtful presentation.

  30. This documentary was a decent smack on the hand for atheists. If a new atheism emerges that (as Dawkins does) regards religion as a virus or something similar, and those kind of people get physically violent, then we’ll have a scenario which will be worse than Mao and Stalin and Pol Pot, and the Jacobins, and the Russian League of Militant Atheists.

    • Not so…… the new atheism is the same old atheism, and either the supernatural exists or it doesn’t. As I’ve mentioned elsewhere, the prisons are filled with Christians, etc., not atheists. And atheists don’t get violent, where did they get that? First of all atheists are a very small minority. Secondly, atheism is science based, while religion is myth based. And please think again before you ascribe atheism as the cause of Stalin et al killing a bunch of people.

      • I think you should take an honest look at history, especially Mao Zedong who had the expressed public goal of eliminating Christianity from China (thats why I ascribe blame to militant atheism), and at the same time he forced kids to learn atheism to the exclusion of everything else. You can work out for yourself just how important atheism was to Mao from that fact alone. Atheism is OK when its not extreme anti-religious, otherwise it can be an important influence in producing some of the worlds most bloodthirsty mass killers. In fact, Mao Zedong and Stalin occupy the first two slots in the Worlds Biggest Mass Murderers list.
        While you are about reading the history of Mao Zedong, be sure to pop over and read about the “League of Militant Atheists” in Russia.
        And check out the prison population lists of Scotland to see whether non-believers outnumber Christians.

        • Thanks Ian, but I don’t buy it. Yes, I think it’s safe to say that Hitler, Stalin, Mao, et al, wanted to eliminate religions for the simple reason that religions ARE governments. A religion has a top leader and it has a book of rules, and it has a professional cadre of thugs who run the whole show, answering NOT TO GOD, but to the Pope, or the Head Pastor or whoever. Religions want to rule…. to make the rules and to threaten eternal Hell and punishment to all who disobey…. Like many, they’ve been indoctrinated to believe that a large religion must be based on truth. Sure! Only there’s no evidence….

          So, was there any reason for a Hitler or a Stalin to want to eliminate a religion? Each leader envisioned a form of government that was different from, and in competition with religion, so…… they decided to eliminate the religion. Perhaps Hitler didn’t care for Jews, but he didn’t bother his Christians, the ones who all had ‘Gott Mit Uns’ on their belt buckles, and did all the killing… Stalin was a Russian Orthodox I believe, and starved many peasants because he stole their food and gave it to the people in the cities. It’s all very difficult to sort out I think. But to say that atheism is the cause of the killing I don’t think is accurate.

          (Appendix: 1997 Federal Bureau of Prisons from Denise Golumbaski, as formatted in Rice/Swift)

          Regarding atheists in prisons…… Note that in this version, the names of a couple of religious groups remain non-standardized, and self-identified “Atheist” remains separate from “Unknown/None.”

          Response Number %
          —————————- ——–
          Catholic 29267 39.164%
          Protestant 26162 35.008%
          Muslim 5435 7.273%
          American Indian 2408 3.222%
          Nation 1734 2.320%
          Rasta 1485 1.987%
          Jewish 1325 1.773%
          Church of Christ 1303 1.744%
          Pentecostal 1093 1.463%
          Moorish 1066 1.426%
          Buddhist 882 1.180%
          Jehovah Witness 665 0.890%
          Adventist 621 0.831%
          Orthodox 375 0.502%
          Mormon 298 0.399%
          Scientology 190 0.254%
          Atheist 156 0.209%
          Hindu 119 0.159%
          Santeria 117 0.157%
          Sikh 14 0.019%
          Bahai 9 0.012%
          Krishna 7 0.009%
          —————————- ——–
          Total Known Responses 74731 100.001% (rounding to 3 digits does this)

          • The Scottish prisons as I mentioned before, prove the reverse, – that there are more atheists in prison and the trend is growing:
            It would be difficult to prove causation in terms of Christianity being responsible for encouraging crime firstly because the actual teachings of Christianity are completely against such behaviour without exception, and secondly you do not know how many inmates became Christians while they were in jail. There is a Christian prison ministry to every prison in the US and they are reporting significant conversion in jail. Although it is true that some inmates say they are Christians because of the “perks” (time off for chapel etc) and in asserting they have a “changed character” they can receive favourable benefit.
            I know of a number of atheist criminals who have converted and turned away from crime because of the teachings of Christ, which you would logically expect:

            On the other hand, if you have an atheist who publicy declares that he wants to rid his country of religion, then don’t be surprised that this will result in the violent deaths of Christians. This did occur with Mao and the League of Militant Atheists in Russia (Stalin was at one stage in training to be a priest but abandoned it and turned atheist.) If you have people like Dawkins saying,”religion is a virus” then that sends a shudder down the spine. Imagine if someone like that got absolute military power. It wouldn’t take a genius to work out what would happen.
            Hitler used religion very well (Christianity, Islam, Occult etc) but he had “plans” for Christianity after the war as the records show.
            Benign atheism is alright. Militant anti-religious atheism isn’t.

          • Difficult to know how to respond, Ian. I searched but could not find the material you referenced in the document. My personal experience included the misfortune of being a guest of the Queen of England for a year, and can testify that there were few atheists there in the Isle of Wight facility in 1968. What atheists wish to stress is this: Without any coherent proof of the existence of any deity, one sees around the world many, many different religions, often in contradiction to one another, such as the Muslims not accepting the divinity of Mary or a Holy Ghost. Each religion says they are the true religion, but it’s all myth and superstition. Yes, religions do good in the world as well, that’s why they evolved. And atheists do good also. The average atheist does not demonize other religions, but rather points out inaccuracies and discrepancies. I am personally confused about why three religions have the same ‘God’ and three different ‘holy’ books, yet they fight and kill each other. I will have to do more research regarding Mao and Stalin to give you a better answer. Stalin’s army was probably Russian Orthodox I would guess, not atheist. Stalin was an atheist killer but not the others I would think. I wonder if foreigners see Bush, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rice et al as Christian killers. And of course there is the spectacle in Northern Ireland…….

          • Thanks Charley… Islam, for me, on the surface is influenced by the Jewish religion, and Christianity too, but there are some really major differences. For example, the Bible says,”God is love”. The Koran does not attribute love to God. That is huge. It informs how you relate to God at a core level (& people). Also in the Bible/Torah is the notion that God is our Father. In the Koran, its not there. Again, fatherhood dictates how you relate to God.
            The 1948 UN Convention of Human Rights were so Christian based that a number of Mulsim nations refused to sign up and said,”these are just Christian values that have been secularised and they go against Sharia law”. That should give an indication of the gulf in values between the two.

            As far as who is Christian and who isn’t, there is a test in Matthew 7:16 that says “by their fruit you shall know them”. A Christian is someone who tries sincerely to follow the teachings of Jesus and who is like him in some way, not necessarily someone who says, “I was sprinkled with water in church when I was 3 months old.”
            Atheists do good stuff and bad stuff, and so do Christians. Its the “sin” already inside a person that needs to be dealt with.

          • And the three religions will be fighting and killing one another forever….. because no one can prove what is unprovable. A solution might be if anthropology could be taught to children, the truthful story of our evolution, so they might understand better what myths and false gods are, and how each human group evolved with a different god and/or goddess. The truth could clarify many things. If children could learn of the hundreds of thousands of years of evolution, and of the difficulties and hardships that were suffered along the way. If our leading religions tell us humans have been here for only a few thousand years it obfuscates the picture, it doesn’t provide enough reality to learn from, of living in small hunting and gathering groups . Belief systems are the backbone of culture, but we’re forever left with an Us and Them situation. Who is to get the resources, Us or Them? When every living creature must eat another living creature there will be competition, there will be struggle for survival, and there must have been people killing and eating people. Early mythologists provided the gods and goddesses. Imagine those thousands of years before speech, before ideas and thoughts. We can hardy do it.
            My feeling is that humans haven’t evolved enough, more time is required for a larger brain to evolve. Look at the resources our country has consumed just killing people around the world, an incredible waste. And the oil is about gone, hardly a couple of hundred years of pumping oil and we’ll be dry. Complete lack of planning…….
            I digress…….

          • I would certainly challenge that the Evolution theory as it stands now is a proven. In fact , the fossil record shows that life suddenly “evolved” (look up Cambrian Explosion*). Microbiologists are still perplexed that life suddenly appeared fully evolved.
            I would also assert that if you take God out of the picture, then the situation is much worse. If you truly dial into the “survival of the fittest”) dogma then you’ll go down a dark path. (As Nietzsche predicted – – he was right). If you take out of the equation , “we are all created equal” ie: by the Creator) then you lose the basis of human rights. Even Humanists like John Gray have acknowledged this, and atheists such as Habermas and Karl Marx too. Marx rejected HUman Rights because he said they were Judeo-Christian.
            Also, if you take away the objective moral values that God gives us, then yuo move into a horrible subjectivity which we’re seeing today. Everyone has their “rights” which they make up. Everyone is offended. Its going to be a nightmare.
            There is a Bible verse that sums up what its becoming like and its this, “everyone did as they saw fit in their own eyes”. Its coming…
            And you might be surprised to learn that scientists have discovered that our brains are actually shrinking:

          • Cambrian “explosion” lasted 50 million years, did you know? I would rather call it “expansion”.

          • Hello Ian, you said…… “If you truly dial into the “survival of the fittest”) dogma then you’ll go down a dark path.”

            Hmmm….. A path ‘darker’ than what we see around us in the world today? Is that possible? The problem is that yes, evolution is both a theory and a fact. Sort of like saying that my Sonata #12 is both a theory and a fact. Evolution does not address origins, no one yet knows what ‘started’ the universe, if it hasn’t existed forever. People use the word ‘God’ which has no referent outside your imagination. God has no Being….. What is God’s Being? Not atoms and molecules certainly, and to say that God is this or that is meaningless. No one can agree, so we simply watch religions evolve, over and over. Or just like language….. languages evolve don’t they? There is a continuity of cellular material that goes all the way back, such that I am a ‘part’ of my father who is a part of his father, etc., etc……

            Religions simply stop somewhere and say ‘God’ did it, and it’s accepted on faith, not reason or logic or evidence. So where did a ‘God’ come from? Faith looks backward while science looks forward……

            I don’t know of any scholar who says life “suddenly appeared fully evolved.”, where did you get that? Life obviously began very, very small. And to say ‘we are all created equal i.e. by the Creator’ is patently false. My word, tell that to a deformed child, or a deafie like my son. Hmm….. I’m not sure where you’re coming from, except some guesswork. ‘Human rights’ are ephemeral my friend, a right is a hope, and any group of thugs can take your ‘rights’ away.

            The truth is ‘we’ the people are simply evolving according to the laws of the universe, and could just as likely go extinct as not. We’re nothing special……. Men have ‘created’ gods and goddesses, and myths and stories, out of their imaginations is my guess.

            Sorry I’m a little ‘testy’, but why you all don’t take evolution and anthropology serious I’ll never understand. Consider seriously that anthropology and economics, factual information, are the two subjects not taught to children when they are young. Now we’re a nation of people who are deeply in debt, and living in Dark Ages Religion.

          • ” but why you all don’t take evolution and anthropology serious I’ll never understand” — I perhaps take anthropology a little more serious than most people since I lived in Africa for 5 years, am married to someone from a different culture, and took a degree-level college course which focused on crossing cultural barriers.

            I think science and faith answer different questions. Faith answers the deeper more existential questions. You can be a great scientist and a great man of faith. Sir Isaac Newton (the greatest scientist who ever lived) was both. He was very expressive about his faith.

            Human Rights, even Humanist, atheist philosophers like John Gray argue, come from the Judeo-Christian assertion that we are all created equal in the image of God and thus have tremendous value. Gray asks a fundamental question of why we act as if humankind are special and have greater value than animals. If you take away God and go with the naturalistic framework with evolution theory, then you end up with all animals having the same value. Or, all animals having the value you choose to assign them. And is the “choosing to assign your subjective value to someone else” that is terrifying. You ask “can it get darker”, I would respond, oh yes, much much worse.

            There are some atheists who have become Christians (or believers in God) because of scientific advancement. Thinking of Anthony Flew the once atheist philosopher who debated at Oxford university. Science is showing up now what Charles Darwin never knew: the extreme complexity of even the most simplest forms of life, and even the single cell is very complex. The sings are there, the fine tuning is there. You can choose to ignore the signs if you like, but God says in his word, “For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities–his eternal power and divine nature–have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse.” Rom 1:20.

          • I understand your position but I believe it to be wrong. In just those few words, “..we are all created equal in the image of God..”, may lie nobel thoughts and ideals but it doesn’t change the reality of the situation to me, that is, I have no evidence of a god nor any idea what ‘equal in the image of God’ could mean. To say that humans have greater value than animals leads to maltreatment of animals to my mind also, although ‘sacrificing’ animals has been quite popular throughout the ages. Your arguments are weak to my mind, one of which assumes a ‘God’ who assigns higher value to humans, and another which mentions something called ‘fine tuning’, which is a non argument, an illusion, since the universe we see is what has evolved, and is the only way our universe could have developed, i.e. as it has. Of the thousands of gods man has created, throughout thousands of years, do you argue that your God is the only ‘real’ God, and all the others are false? Are you aware that there are people today in the Amazon Jungles who have never heard of the Christian ‘God’. And why would ‘God’ not show up here on earth, or Jesus, who said he was coming back. It’s myths, mate, from one end to the other……. myths.

          • Ok… We all choose our own way. Looks like you have made a firm choice. At least when you face God you can’t say, “no-one warned me about this.”

          • Right, ‘when’ I face God, but no one has seen God according to John 1:18, except Job at Job 42:5…….
            Thanks for the discussion, Ian. I get especially upset when I stumble across the articles regarding child abuse in religious institutions…… see my latest discussion.

          • I get upset too when that happens.

            Remember I hope you can look at history and find the opposite: where Christians have saved children from abuse and neglect.
            Churches were the first orphanages, Christians campaigned against infanticide as early as Roman times. Christians wrote the Human Rights for the child for the U.N. charter. Christians campaigned for factory laws that stopped children being pressed into work at an early age. Christians campaigned for the age of consent to be set at 16 so that kids would be saved from sexual abuse. Christians also set up the RSPCC and set up Foster Care. I hope you can also see the very positive side with children and Christianity too.
            My position with Catholics is that they should let their priests marry. I don’t agree that a priest should be single. Its not Biblical in my view.

          • Yes, I try to see both sides, and you’re right, but the anthropological side is more fact oriented and stronger to my mind, and that the spiritual and religious sides are humanly designed for a reason, that of control of populations and thought.

          • An important point I want to make is that “you CAN’T believe” without God helping you to do so. That might sound strange, but consider the story of CS Lewis, the atheist Oxford Professor who “got on a bus not believing in God, but got off the same bus 45 mins later believing”. This might sound strange but it happened to me too. At the age of 25, I read the Bible and it made no sense and I tried to pray and I simply couldn’t. Many a time I would slam down the Bible but I picked it back up again. Then one night God met me powerfully and opened up my prayer life and understanding of the Bible. Suddenly I believed. Suddenly I understood.
            So, you can’t believe Charley even if you wanted to.
            What happens is this: when God sees you making serious steps in his direction and praying, “are you there, show me, come to me”, — he sees that and makes a few steps towards you. Eventually you meet in the middle and he opens your eyes.

  31. The real aim of atheism is the weakening and demoralization of the Christian faith that provides the value system and social cohesion in Western Society. This is why the Left tends to promote atheism but much of the Left “value system” is grounded in Atheistic Marxism that was invented by anti-Christian Jews — most prominently the Rabbi Moses Hess. Which also explains why so many “Jews” are atheist.

    Thus atheism actually advances an agenda designed to weaken the value system and social order of the West while disguising their true agenda.

    • Quite wrong, atheism is obviously not what you seem to think. Yes, atheists would like any religious individual to examine his/her belief system to see how ‘real’ it is, or if it is all based on myths and fictions. And you’re suggesting that Atheistic Marxism was ‘invented’ by anti-Christian Jews….. where in this world did you get that?

      Nice try, but atheism has no concern with your value system and social order. Atheism just wants you to understand the scientific foundation of reality….. to understand that there have been thousands of gods and goddesses created by humans over the thousands of years of evolution. Young children need the truth, not fictions about angels and demons….. they need a real scientific education to understand the world. Teaching economics, i.e. money and debt, as well as mythology, i.e. the how and why of religions, will help our chances of happiness, but certainly not biblical passages such as the 19 reasons listed regarding who you can kill and why.

    • Those of us who are educated, enlightened and have a healthy command of common sense know that Religion IS the problem with humanity. How many people have died for this pathetic cause. Religion does not give us morality, its the other way around. If the value system was twisted and no good to begin with, then there’s not much effort required in weakening it. Religious people are pathetically temperamental, DEMANDING that the rest of the world respect their lunacy. Humanity will better off once we shed the albatross around our neck which is RELIGION! Religious people who persecute, judge and harm … get everything they deserve. Your imaginary God means nothing to me and chances are Atheist children will grow up to be better adults without all the hate that the church has to offer.

      • Well said….. direct and to the point. From the point of view of human evolution, myth and religion have served a basic social function, that of maintaining the solidarity of the group against any opposing groups…… and those who refused to participate were ostracized, kicked out and sent to wander. Deities were anything from tree and wind spirits to storm gods and such. If a group survived, their deity grew more important and more well known. They had no way of knowing if a deity was real or not.

  32. Whats the moral of the story? Don’t cry shit-wolf.

  33. It is true as when Nietzsche proclaimed ‘whither is God? I will tell you.We have killed him – you and I. all of us are his murderers.But how did we do this? How could we drink up the sea? Who gave us the sponge to wipe away the entire horizon?’ – What Nietzsche is implying is we went to far. Yes it was time to do away with a moralizing, praise addicted, vengeful, life denying deity, but we had also done away with all truth and arrived at nihilism.
    We has simply killed god and dressed him up as as science and technology..think about it..most of us take comfort and solace in the belief and/or hope that one day science and technology will save us from over-population, poverty, disease and climate change and so on.
    Nietzsche pointed out repeatedly that we must change our inner values in order to change the world. We must accept reality: Humans die, exploit, hurt one another and we live in a sick, weak age because christianity demonized natural parts of who we are, and Socrates gave birth to a world where we live in our minds, coupled together, we are totally disconnected from reality, ourselves and the fact we are just intelligent animals part of this planet.
    Just like religion there are fundamentalists within the atheist movement. A healthy atheist ought to really be a sceptic, just like a good scientist and what I identify as a philosophical pessimist, which means I don’t need superfluous childish needs that manifest in adulthood, like in religious types who are just still stuck in needing a paternal deity to comfort, reassure, guide, promise and tell them they are special with a special gift. rubbish I say.
    there are almost 8 billion people on the planet, are they all special with special gifts? there is no evidence whatsoever other than this world is an ‘aesthetic phenomenon’ as Schopenhauer said.
    We exist to survive, reproduce and gain what little pleasure we can from our mostly disappointing, insignificant, miserable existence. We will all die and turn into compost one day.
    A true agnostic/atheist believes the question ‘is there a god?’ pointless and erroneous.
    We lack the intelligence or power to dwell in such hypothetical realms, and it is denial to live one’s live in faith based optimism or providence. The same denial that everything is crap and not worth trying is the other end of the spectrum.
    I experienced such a relief and liberation when I stopped searching for the system or blueprint that would explain everything and this is ultimately driven by the need for empowerment which, in turn, is driven by fear. Oscar wilde said ‘The basis for optimism is sheer terror’. Fear that we are not special, we are going to die and we have forgotten as communities how to teach our young men and girls how to deal with their fear, so we live in a fear driven world.
    We have even come to believe that if we think positive enough, hard enough, often enough, this will manifest what we want in our lives. What garbage! another way to express that is wishful or magical thinking. Wake up you idiots.

  34. well, you fixing to get all you want and then some, death that is as the atheist get to go crazy. have fun folks, after all it is what you wanted…

    • Hey, Chip. How was your trip to Israel?

      Back already?

      Didn’t the 7 year trib start in July of 2008?

      Are we in overtime or extra innings now?

      Better check with them angels again.

      • keep up that smile and that fake grin, no one thinks everything is ok but the few who can’t care,and those in prison, etc.. july 08 started the money troubles and it hasn’t been fixed and it won’t be. dec. 2012 started the last 7 years and life as we know it is about to change on levels that will cause you to poop those tiny pants you wear. you go and laugh, it is fine with me. i have a safe out, but you, well that is another story all together. you laughed and others planned and you will cry while others slide out without being seen. you were too smart for your own good and it came crashing down as you played like children do.
        i have seen it, i have a front row seat. they will eat each other while throwing their foolish gold and silver into the streets, now it has become nothing and piles of it. those who want to eat will take their mark into their bodies and they will eat as they think about hell that waits. you will sit with them as the tears roll down your face. a few simple things could have changed everything, but it was easier to laugh and play thinking life was but a joke, the joke is on you clown…

        • Typical religious reply…… ‘If you’re not religious like me, you will rot in hell, and blah, blah, blah…. Right, you and your religion have all the answers…… grow up…..

        • That’s sure strange. For the past 5 years you’ve been telling everybody that the last 7 years started in July of 2008. I suppose because we are past that date that you had to move the goalposts like Harold Camping did and like all of the pseudo prophets of god did. You are no different. Your record proves it.

          As for “planning” – your planning is nothing more concrete than the wish you have for survival. Your so-called safe city is a plot of land that you do not own and you have not even thought out nor provided for the basic problems of sanitation. Instead, you believe your god will feed you and also take care of the latrine, something that was overlooked in the fable of Moses and the Exodus. No problem – you never saw Hollywood cowboys go to the bathroom either. This happens in “stories”.

          If and when the spaghetti hits the fan, anyone foolish enough to follow your lead will end up worse holding their mouths open to the sky thinking that manna will drop into it.

          There is a lot to be said about credibility. You have none. Everything you have said for the past 5 years has been totally wrong. Tell us – why should someone take you seriously?

          • Just look at the shape of things, it’s about to hit the fan and the fan is huge. Over look my Short coming and head on down. I will forget all we have said to one another and we’ll Ride this thing out together. What you say? Truse, your going to see I told the truth as hard as it was to hear, I’m as fauld as they come. Come on down and bring those you love with you. OK. Chip

          • don’t do as you wish…

  35. so the film producer just spent 47 minutes describing how bad atheism is . how did he do it ? he described it as a worser religion , basically saying that religion is as bad as it sounds . nice one .
    and yes i am an atheist at the end of the day . but only 99% , we atheists still do not have proof that god dosen’t exist . so unitl then ….

  36. Tina, since when is god love and kindness, HAVE YOU READ THE BIBLE? In the old testament the devil kills 7 people and got kills 7 million?????

  37. This guy looks like the retard he is.

  38. There’s only “Good” and “Bad” in this world. It’s simple not complex you either love or hate. God is Good and the Devil is Bad that simple. If we choose to love it’s better, but it’s hard to love one who hates. That’s why I wish there will be more of us who believe in God “the Creator” the “Great Mystery”. It’s not superstition it’s Fact, my friend my brother/sister. I’m no one just little me, in God’s beautiful world. He gave us the most beautiful things which are free. He encourages diversity, he gave us variety. Thank you God. Ha’hou’. I AM NOT INDIAN I AM AN ARAPAHO FROM WYOMING.

    • Ha’hou’, Arapaho ! Love and hate are not that far apart. Most days I loved my spouse, but there were moments I hated her. So it is not that simple, black or white. Love or hate are not everlasting, we humans swing moods. I suspect you curse god on some occasions and praise when you feel good.

    • Tina, stick with being Indian and leave the white man’s ‘gods’ alone. You don’t need the hatred that the British conquerers brought to this country to destroy your people, nor do you need his gods.

  39. I could tell this was going to be a good video because of the negative feedback from atheist. No one gets angrier or self defensive than atheist.

    • You’re so right. Christians and Muslims take criticism so well, they are the epitome of calm in a debate or when confronted with a cartoon they don’t like. That’s why you can’t actually debate most of them face-to-face for fear of them exploding into psychotic fits of unbridled rage.

      I’ve lost count of the number of times people have pleaded with me to drop the subject, simply because some god-botherer was throwing their toys out of the pram and fixing to throw hands; many are inherently violent, just look at the way they believe that god blesses their acts of mass murder.

      Theists, where their beliefs are concerned, are critically hobbled, rendering them childlike in their abilities to check their emotions in the face of criticism.

    • God is not real. Prove me wrong.

      • God is real. Prove me wrong.

        • sure, for you god is real. I do agree. He/she/it exist between your ears. Somehow he missed to buy a condo in my mind, sorry.

      • The big bang wouldn’t produce a sun, you would be flying around in utter pit black space. Think about it for Even a minute,,.

      • What does the word God mean to you? Because it doesn’t mean the same thing to everyone.

      • You made the assertion, you prove otherwise.

        • Actually since there is no REAL tangible proof of God, it’s up to the religious folk to prove it to the rest of us. You can point fingers and claim assertions all you want, you can’t escape that rock solid truth!

          • “Rock solid truth”? Wow, you are delusional.

          • The only delusional one here is you, and people like you, you actually believe in an omnipotent deity, so insecure in himself, that he needs to take Sunday attendance and have lowly human beings to worship him. Oh and please, don’t start quoting the bible … the last thing any of need is to hear more ranting from an ancient sheep herders with an infinitesimal world view. get where I’m going here? Probably not. Religion was made up by the ignorant mind to give definition to what humans could not yet comprehend. Today’s religion is merely a haven for the greedy, bigots, racists, liars and pedophiles. Go ahead, try and prove me wrong … I can bring up news article after news article basically backing all of that up. You’re such hypocrites that you should all be neutered, you would be doing a great service to the human race!

          • Wow… Bigotry anyone? I wonder if u can scientifically back up “You’re such hypocrits that you should all be neutered….” Go ahead… Write out a response… You might call it a hypothesis, then 20 years from now Richard Dawkins will write a book asserting your hypothesis to be undeniable…. That’s real openmindedness… Sounding like Hitler, gotta get them out of the gene pool. Hypocrisy is too friendly a term. I guess, its true… People can be stupid, regardless of what their beliefs or political affiliation may be. It’s alright though, I don’t blame you. Those who taught you hatred, sure didn’t teach you much else… Like the irony of posting a bigoted and hypocritical message… About bigots and hypocrits. I haven’t even seen the documentary, but its certainly got you riled up. The audacity… Of believing something other than what I believe… I’ll show them… Threaten their manhood. *rolls eyes* I will say, the funniest thing about athiests is that they don’t notice bigotry in themselves or others who share their beliefs. That’s like scary kind of bigotry… On that note… I’m gonna watch the documentary.

          • I’m open, completely open … TO REALITY!!! Don’t speak to me about bigotry when until you actually have a case. One can’t be bigoted against something that has no place in reality to begin with. Unlike you, I don’t need a God to come with a reason to think the things I do … because I can THINK!!!! I don’t require you to believe what I believe at all, in fact its quite the opposite. It’s your group that requires belief from and acceptance from the rest of us and we’ve had enough!!! Refusing to place credence in fairy tales, and not giving religious folk a podium to Judge on, is probably the best thing humanity can do for itself. Oh you try to turn the tables sweetheart, but the fact remains that RELIGIONS, especially the Christians … are responsible for the most Segregation, wars, torture, bigotry, forced indoctrination and deaths in all of human history; yet you pathetically try to turn the tables on me by calling me a bigot when the religious absolutely gave meaning to the word! YES, religious people should be neutered for being so pathetically stupid as to believe there is an omnipotent being up there that always is, has been and will be … taking Sunday Attendance! Its not the rational world’s problem if you’re offended, it’s actually very much your own!

          • If I have hatred in me it was learned from the church I was raised in. Thank the Universe my genetics were stronger than the brain washing. In the end, intelligence and reason won out. Believe me, I’d be content to let you all live in peace but history teaches us all one thing very clearly, the religious have no clue what lasting peace is, they’re to busy judging and indoctrinating.

            Being raised in a realistic world, coming from good family with a long generational history in farming I can tell you this for sure, when you remove the disease from your crops, your plants flourish! religion is a disease, that teaches bigotry, self hate, segregation and sexism. Modern society is trying to shed these perils and yet we keep getting held back by you lot. Religions are responsible for more death across the globe than all the wars put together. The madness and monstrosity that humans will allow themselves in the name of God is astoundingly disgusting to the sane world.

            You can paint me with all the brushes you want, it doesn’t change the irrationality of your belief and the need for humanity to start moving beyond it. I’m not talk Spirituality or belief in the divine; I’m talking about the corrupt concepts of organized religions and the notion of deities. The fact that you all quote an antiquated document written by ancient sheep headers, with an infinitesimal world view, as reality, is astoundingly mind blowing to anyone with a little bit of education and reasoning power.

            Finally, the religious have some nerve trying to force all of society to recognize their ridiculousness as a tangible reality that should be applied across the board when to the rest of us, the whole idea is insulting at best! HOW DARE YOU try and change the focus from your well deserved criticisms to try and vilify me, I have every reason in the world to say the things I do … you don’t know me!

            Atheists are just tired … tired of this pointless diatribe from the religious right when all its EVER done historically, is hold humanity back and cause us all great pain!

          • All walks of life exhibit the same problems.

          • Not really, I could not have cared less about what religious folk did or said provided they didn’t interfere with my life. As a result of the religious right rearing its ugly head in the last 10 years and claiming its being discriminated against because society at large won’t allow them to discriminate (such ridiculousness); I am now on the defensive. Religious people don’t get it; when their religious observations start interfering with the freedoms and rights of others, then you no longer have a right to your religious freedom. Religion can never take first place above the rational, observable, the tangible and the realistic. Religious ideology will NEVER supersede personal freedoms and rights and it never should!!! Let me reiterate, I wouldn’t be taking these views had they not cast the first stone (Anti LGBT, Traditional Marriage, Anti Abortion, Anti Birth Control, ETC ETC ETC ETC). They love telling the rest of us how to live but they forget, they have NO RIGHT!!! The most pathetic among human beings if you ask me.

          • The most educated man knows he is ignorant. The least educated feels he is all knowing.

          • The all-knowing can be found on the pulpit and knees-down in the pews, in spades, yet oddly enough their presence in the lab is conspicuously absent, fella.

          • PehLEASE! You should be looking in a mirror while uttering those words, it would far more apt. But hey, whatever gets you through the day! 🙂

  40. This guy is a dogmatic idiot!!!

    • Quantum physics is actually coming up with theories re: the interaction of electromagnetic fields between people and groups of people, and how that relates to what some people call prayer.

      • Quantum physics is actually coming up with theories re: the interaction
        of electromagnetic fields between people and groups of people, and how
        that relates to what some people call TELEPATHY, is also an untestable asinine claim wrought with wishful thinking.

        • It’s untestable TODAY. Science isn’t over. Although I’m sure it would be if more scientist were like you, hyper confident in your complete lack of imagination.

          • It’s over-optimistic, wishful thinking fools like you who are better off writing science fiction novels than working in grounded science

          • There are many things that are untestable, but that does not add credence to their likelihood, however, the very first study into the effectiveness of prayer was very simply and smartly carried out in England 200 or so odd years ago. Knowing that the incumbent royals were routinely included in the prayers of their devoted subjects, there was a natural assumption that they would in fact live longer and healthier lives than those whom they ruled over. However, more often than not, they in fact died well before the common man most probably due to access to life’s guilty pleasures and perhaps a little inbreeding. Moreover, lab rats go into remission at the same rate as cancer patients that have been prayed for by loved ones, and amputees who have been prayed for do not grow back new limbs. There is no reason to believe that prayer works but very good reason to believe it does not.

  41. Very superficial discussion……. by a nerd named Rod Liddle ……. such bad generalizations, suggesting that atheists are this and atheists are that. But atheists don’t have a power structure like churches do, and history has shown us how the leaders become corrupt, and powerful, and rich.
    But there is an incredible difference, anthropology suggests that religions are the social backbone of small group behaviour, a social ‘glue’ if you will, that identifies members of the same groups and strenghtens the group. Whereas atheism is a simple statement that no evidence has been observed that would identify a ‘god’. Apples and oranges……..

    • Except the best theories science can come up with are just theories they are scientific guesswork. Evolution is not fact as you put it is a theory one which has evidence behind it but is not definitive and conclusive. As the scientists in the video pointed out when discussing the theories this is what “we believe” is the case “we think” happened same as a person with a religious bent would say “we believe” and “we think” but neither party “knows” as you put it. Incidentally, there is evidence for the existence of God and indeed the Big Bang Theory is a catholic theory it was derived by Father George Lemaitre and Einstein said it was the most convincing theory he had heard of for the existence of God.

      • Owen,
        Evolution is both theory and fact. Our perception of evolution is not ‘guesswork’, although a theory may begin as a guess. The factual part is what is dug up from the strata as they were deposited years ago. It’s a fact that we’ve changed over the years, and the theory says it is because of genetic mutation and selection, etc. Religion is all guesswork and theory. There are thousands of gods and goddesses, are they all ‘real’? Religion evolved for the purpose of social cohesion and group identity.
        I’d be happy to see any evidence for the existence of any ‘supernatural’ being…….. And the Big Bang is still a guess……

    • You must first imagine, the knowing only comes after that. Einstein once said that physics is nothing compared to the imagination.

      • Brilliant! Just brilliant…..There have been thousands of gods and goddesses recorded throughout history, so which one catches your fancy? Maybe the one you were indoctrinated to believe in when you were a child. “There is no antidote for religion mixed with mother’s milk.”, Robert Ingersoll said.

        Yes, tell us the truths your imagination has revealed to you…. what have you ‘imagined’ to be true or false concerning religion and the world. Perhaps it disturbs you that atheists prefer reality as revealed by the scientific method, which also requires peer review and confirmation.

        Step up to the plate my friend and tell us how the world works……

        • “There is no antidote for religion mixed with mother’s milk.” Wow! If there ever was a false statement that would be it. People frequently change their striped, regardless of upbringing. You do realize it was the Catholics who developed the scientific method?

          • False statement? It’s a humorous generalization. People don’t ‘frequently’ change their ‘striped’, it’s more like ‘occaisional’. And you might research that last sentence regarding Catholics, in a few minutes you could learn the real history of the scientific method, which began back in the 1st century B.C.

            “By the middle of the 1st millennium BC in Mesopotamia, Babylonian astronomy had evolved into the earliest example of a scientific astronomy, as it was “the first and highly successful attempt at giving a refined mathematical description of astronomical phenomena.”

            It was the ancient Greeks who engaged in the earliest forms of what is today recognized as a rational theoretical science,

            Several scientific methods thus emerged from the medieval Muslim world by the early 11th century, all of which emphasized experimentation as well as quantification to varying degrees.

            In his account of a method, Bacon described a repeating cycle of observation, hypothesis, experimentation, and the need for independent verification. He recorded the way he had conducted his experiments in precise detail, perhaps with the idea that others could reproduce and independently test his results.

            After the accession of Pope Clement IV in 1265, the Pope granted Bacon a special commission to write to him on scientific matters. In eighteen months he completed three large treatises, the Opus Majus, Opus Minus, and Opus Tertium which he sent to the Pope.[44] William Whewell has called Opus Majus at once the Encyclopaedia and Organon of the 13th century.[45]

            Part I (pp. 1–22) treats of the four causes of error: authority, custom, the opinion of the unskilled many, and the concealment of real ignorance by a pretense of knowledge.

            Part VI (pp. 445–477) treats of experimental science, domina omnium scientiarum. There are two methods of knowledge: the one by argument, the other by experience. Mere argument is never sufficient; it may decide a question, but gives no satisfaction or certainty to the mind, which can only be convinced by immediate inspection or intuition, which is what experience gives.

            Experimental science, which in the Opus Tertium (p. 46) is distinguished from the speculative sciences and the operative arts, is said to have three great prerogatives over all sciences:
            It verifies their conclusions by direct experiment;
            It discovers truths which they could never reach;
            It investigates the secrets of nature, and opens to us a knowledge of past and future.

            Roger Bacon illustrated his method by an investigation into the nature and cause of the rainbow, as a specimen of inductive research.[46]


          • You should check out the Vatican’s work on cosmology if you doubt the Vatican’s support of science. Start here…

          • I’m more concerned with the work they did raping our children here in Ireland, leaving me, an Atheist, not to mention every other non-Catholic, to pick up the bill for damages to the victims of their disgusting, institutionalised perversions through our taxes. You should check that out. Start here…

          • Children get raped and molested by all kinds of professions that have access. Teachers, coaches, child care workers etc. The pedophiles will join what ever gives them access to children. If the orphans of Ireland were taken under the care of a non secular department, the pedophiles would have gone there.

          • The church, right up to the very pinnacle of it’s hierarchy were complicit in covering up said child abuse, moving predator from parish to parish, enabling and facilitating their systematic sexual and brutal physical abuse of the most vulnerable members of our society, our children.

            The fact that the Pope was complicit in this cover-up and the fact that he enabled and facilitated sexual predators on a worldwide scale, coupled with the fact that he is, according to Catholic doctrine, supposed to be infallible and God’s numero uno in this universe makes the entire institution a sick and cruel joke.

            The fact that you would shrug this off as no biggie, thankfully marks you as being majorly out of step with many of my fellow countrymen who are beginning to wake up and distance themselves from this poisonous institution. Our people have suffered under a sad and humiliating case of Stockholm Syndrome long enough.

          • I don’t dismiss it, in fact I am even a stronger advocate for children than you, because I recognize it in all institutions where adults have access to children. The pedophiles will not disappear if all of Catholicism was forever removed from the planet, they will simply set up shop in other places and that is my concern today.

          • Whoa there Letem Dangle…… What a side-step that was! Tell me first that your ‘God’ doesn’t take special concern regarding His Priests, the ones who pray to Him every day and night. Are you suggesting ‘God’ DOESN’T KNOW His Priests are raping children…. a ‘God’ who is Omniscient and Omnipotent doesn’t take the time and trouble to excise the rot from His churches and cathedrals? Instead He allows the church officials to simply TRANSFER the Priest to another church…
            You must be joking….. Maybe a God could show up some day…..

          • God takes concern for all. God can do all things, but then mankind will not evolve, there would be no purpose to mankind if God made everything perfect. The moment mankind discovers God on all levels, mankind ceases to be. We are simply travelling towards that time.

          • ‘God’ can’t do all things. He made a world where every living creature has to eat another, usually alive, to stay alive himself, if that makes any sense to anyone. ‘God’ couldn’t stop hundreds of children from being killed in a Tsunami….

            You’re making it all up….. Where is any evidence for your statements?

          • The Vegans would disagree with you. So would some African tribes who only live off the blood and milk of cows without harming the cows. We humans are God’s garden, he harvests us from time to time. Man’s history and behavior is evidence of God.

          • The Vegans eat grasses, fruits and other living stuff don’t they? Yes, perhaps a better theory would be that a ‘God’ is raising us, and when we fill the earth, say maybe 12 billion of us, then we will be harvested. Evidence of God? What evidence? What do you know of ‘God’? What is God’s Being for example? Humans are made of atoms and molecules and such, and what is God made of? Christians delight in telling me that they are made in ‘God’s’ image. Really, how is that? Are we almighty, eternal, holy, immortal, immutable, ineffable, invisible, just, or omnipotent? Or perhaps omniscient, perfect, provident or supreme? Time to return to reality ……..

          • You’re missing the point, I’d posit deliberately. The litany of abuse and the blood that is on the hands of the Catholic church is unforgivable. It’s entire history is steeped in murder, brutality, venality and unrelenting, manipulative exploitation.

            That good people still align themselves with this cadre of vicious, greedy perverts is a tragedy, especially when often these people’s own personal ideologies are at odds with the church itself. They are used as sandbags to insulate the filth that lies at the heart of the institution from criticism.

            Their good works, which are a credit to their humanity, are hijacked by the church, who have the temerity to claim that it is the church that drives these people to do good deeds; it is not, it’s simply good people doing what good people do.

            The Catholic church has utterly betrayed every human being that has ever put their faith in them, again and again, and again. It’s an organisation which needs to be abandoned, which is precisely what people are doing in record numbers.

          • All organizations eventually get taken over by psychopaths and sociopaths including governments and NGO’s. The church has a long history so you are going to see a lot of them there. Our entire civilization is fraught with evil doers from the beginning of time to the present. The larger and older the institution the more corruption there will be.

          • I’m sure the Vatican supports science, at least the things that pass the Pope Test, while the scientific method is designed to avoid such a ‘test’ through corroboration, verification and peer review. Does the Vatican send out it’s research to independent observers for verification and confirmation? Let’s take an example, say the concept of a place called Limbo……

            “The Roman Catholic Church has effectively buried the concept of limbo, the place where centuries of tradition and teaching held that babies who die without baptism went.

            In a long-awaited document, the Church’s International Theological Commission said limbo reflected an “unduly restrictive view of salvation”.’

            What are we to think? For centuries the church and the Popes said this place existed, Limbo is a place, and now the Pope declares He has changed His mind? Where is the reality in any of this? Millions of people believe in a Heaven and a Hell, so where is the proof, is there any evidence of these places?

          • Yes, much of their work is peer reviewed and appears in many journals. Research it, it’ll really surprise you.

          • I was referring to modern scientific method.

  42. Atheism is not a “belief” it’s living life without belief.I couldn’t passionately kill for beliefs I don’t actually have. I follow the methodology of science and therefore have an understanding of the world that is shaped and can therefore be changed by evidence. So unlike any religion my atheism embraces any challenge against it, you’d just better provide evidence or else your challenge will fall on deaf ears. Would this world be better if we were all atheists? Yes. Is that possible? I have not seen any evidence to suggest that it is.

  43. I find it amusing that the comments are basically supporting the points that the documentary is making with their behaviour. They prove the overall point as a few people have mentioned before.

    This documentary isn’t the best documentary on this site but it does bring up good points about the atheist community as a whole and it is certainly worth a higher score than the one that it currently has.

    Unfortunately, there are a lot of dishonest and biased people here who are too immature to be open-minded about the video.

    • Live and let live? I, as an Atheist, can be executed for no other crime than my disbelief, by letter of law, in 13 countries on this planet, right now, in the 21st century.

      I have less rights in my own country, Ireland, a developed Western European state, than my religious countrymen, as expressed by the fact I can potentially be prosecuted under our flat-Earth blasphemy laws, while a religious person can say whatever they please about Atheists, with impunity, short of ordering their faithful to explicitly murder us; implicit instruction via reference to cute tracts of scripture like those found in Deuteronomy is fine though..

      In America there are 7 states where under state law an Atheist can not hold public office.

      If religious dogma didn’t impact on our lives so heavily we’d happily live and let live, in fact that’s precisely what secularists have been trying to do by separating church from state; neuter the religionists’ ability to enforce their will on everybody, competing religionists included, so we can ALL live and let live, within the letter of man-made law, which should optimally be based on reason as opposed to alleged divine revelation.

      Unfortunately, too many religionists aren’t fans of reason, which Luther himself described as a whore and an enemy of faith, so we need to wrestle constantly to prevent the religious from screwing everything up, for everybody, believer and non-believer alike.

    • Yes, obviously the fact that people are annoyed with this documentary because they consider the creators to be either uninformed or intentionally misleading is proof that it’s right.

      Wait, what?

      Of course the atheist “community” has problems, because atheists are people and people are generally kind of terrible–but science being a quasi-religion isn’t one of them. There’s also the issue of stating that we all need to “live and let live”. I agree–that would be ideal. But in order for that to happen, people would need to stop using their personal religious beliefs to dictate law and oppress others. Most atheists just want to be left alone (obviously there are a few who are assholes who spend their time trying to find opportunities to argue pointlessly) so that they can live their lives without religious interference.

    • Theists say there is a particular god whereas atheists say they are unconvinced. What is so closed minded about the latter position? I perhaps can understand your argument if you believe that atheists claim there is no god like this documentary fraudulently claims at the very beginning.

      • I honestly don’t care what you believe so long as you respect the beliefs of others.
        Unfortunately, that isn’t what is being shown here (in the comment section) as people are putting their views above others by calling the theists and agnostics as idiots as several of the comments below.
        If you’re a person who is open minded and tolerant with people (regardless of their beliefs) then my comment wasn’t directed to you.

        • You should not necessarily respect the beliefs of others but instead tolerate them, but only if those beliefs do not infringe upon the liberties of innocent parties. I would put it to you that there are many beliefs you do not respect. In my case, for instance, I don’t respect the notion of telling a 5 year old that they will burn for eternity unless they believe a certain way as I was told by my parents and teachers throughout the first half of my life.

          • You don’t have to respect someone’s beliefs, you should respect the human.

          • Oh I wouldn’t say that.
            After all, each belief has its own history and infringing upon the liberties of innocent parties can mean a lot of things to different people (I would know as I used to study law).
            Telling someone what you believe to be the truth isn’t infringing on their liberties but never the less, it wouldn’t be the best way to teach a child about a religion in the first place (which you have my condolences for your teacher’s inexperience).
            Then again, there are people that have told children that religion is the poison of the world (along with the people that follow it) which is simply idiotic to any educated person who has studied philosophy, history and/or theology (or knows anything about it in general).
            Needless to say, there are people on both sides that shove their opinion down other people’s throats.
            The point that I’m making is that it isn’t that hard for people to simply “live and let live” as the video suggests but instead of having that, the majority of the comments are rather bigoted to say the least.
            Overall, it’s simply disappointing to see but not a surprise.
            Anyways, I think that we have said all that needs to be pointed out so I’ll retire from this discussion.

          • Please……. “Live and let live’ is a meaningless, empty phrase when you consider how Christianity attempts to indoctrinate the entire world with it’s myths and stories in the Bible. Before science had any influence over men’s minds, Christians didn’t hesitate to shove their beliefs down everyone’s throat…. and then to cut the throats of the non-believers. One has only to read the ‘holy’ book of the Muslims to understand that ‘live and let live’ is simply not possible when the holy book itself tells you who to kill and not to kill. There are 19 different places in the Bible that tell Christians who to kill, which is anyone who believes differently than the religion requires.

            Religion is a cultural phenomenon seen in about all primitive groups, as it evolved as a primary way to control a small group of hunting and gathering people. A common ‘god’ was essential to each group, to unify and strengthen the group. If your group was victorious, your ‘God’ became widely known and feared. It’s all in the anthropological books if you are interested in facts and not fictions.

          • If you bothered to put that interest into reading facts and not making up excuses for your bigotry then you would see that it is more than possible to have meaning.
            You seem to have confused evangelizing as forcing people to comply with their rules which is not only false (or you don’t bother to understand religion in general) but a clear sign that you simply don’t want to be tolerant yourself .
            Atheists have slaughtered, tortured and caused genocide for people that have had a religion whether they had a book or not to support it.
            They’ve also caused quite a few of the great disasters in history with casualties that are catastrophic.
            That doesn’t mean that they can’t be tolerant with people of other beliefs and religions if they try and the same can be said of the religious.
            As for the places where it has told people to kill, do bother putting them into context and where it is actually said as theologians can support that it is a religion of peace at the core (which put their whole life into researching religions).
            As for your final theory, do bother to study theology any time soon (instead of picking fights with idiotic points) as they contested and have gotten rid of the theory that religion was made to control people long ago.
            Ultimately, you’re wrong that it is an empty phrase without meaning.
            It is people like you that make up excuses and support your bigotry/hatred that are the reason why people can’t “live and let live”.
            I could bother to spend more of my time shooting down whatever excuses you could make but I have better things to do so I’ll end it here.

          • Well, I see that timgale has answered some of your objections in his response below, so I’ll skip around a bit. I am disturbed that Ron Liddle even got this film on the market it’s so wrong. He creates the atheist he hates. Atheism is a personal belief, it is not an organization anything like a church. There is no structure to atheism, no hierarchy of command, no money given to support immense building projects and worldwide missions.
            Atheists have only one point, which is that there is no evidence to support your claims. There is no evidence of a god or deity, no real evidence of anything supernatural. The O.T. Bible is a manual for genocide, where God even throws down hailstones to kill. Atheism doesn’t contain anything so quaint as ‘Do exactly what God says or you will be punished in hell. You said:

            “As for the places where it (the Bible) has told people to kill, do bother putting them into context and where it is actually said as theologians can support that it is a religion of peace at the core.” A religion of peace?

            Wait just a minute……. You’re saying that Biblical context will make God’s killing OK? That you can kill whoever your religion tells you can be killed? It’s the amount of killing in the Book that tells me this is just one more man-made power structure to control a population.

            Ron Liddle is dispensing lies in this film and is the reason I bother writing this.

          • That’s an old broken argument that holds no water. It’s frightfully dishonest or uninformed of you to use it. Stalin and Pol Pot were Marxists. This worldview lead them to commit atrocities coupled with the fact that they were just lousy and deluded people. Atheism had nothing to do with it. Certain conflicts, however, have been purely driven by religion, such as the Inquisition, for instance, but the Tamil Tigers and the IRA, despite being purely Hindu or Catholic were divided along religious lines but not motivated by those religions to do what they did. For you to persevere down this path, you must also argue that Jeffrey Dahmer was motivated by Christianity, which of course he wasn’t. He just happened to be Christian.

            Moreover, even if being unconvinced there is a god, which atheism is, did cause people to do terrible things, it does not make any one of the many gods people believe in real.

          • You wouldn’t say what? That all beliefs deserve respect? Does that extend to those who claim racial or gender superiority for instance?

            When a stranger tells you on the bus that they are the reincarnation of Elvis, do you move closer or further away?

            People have the right to have beliefs but they surely do not have the right to have those beliefs respected.

  44. Not surprised that this documentary exist. Just surprised this was #2 on top 100 list.

  45. The host wants so hard the atheists to be as dellusinal as the religious, that its ridiculous.

    There is not one valid argument throughout 47 minutes and 17 seconds that I wasted.

    And this is a mockumentary in second place in top 100.


  46. So that’s four atheists who caused mass murder.
    Now name all of the religious people who caused mass murder throughout history, and are -still- causing it. “Ethnic Cleansing”, otherwise known as genocide, counts.

    Does it reach the double or triple digits now? I kind of lost count.

    The point is, this reflects badly on the person doing it -not the beliefs that person holds-. Judging the entire group in this manner results in the worst kind of hypocrisy.

  47. the war on religion ?! NO!NO!NO! is only a war on stupidity and ignorance.

    • Stupidity and Ignorance. Interesting, ok I have an IQ of 152 I am a member of MENSA and a certified Genius by that token I am also a Christian, I was not raised Christian I became a Christian through logic and reason. Now you say I am stupid so please give me a theory any theory which disproves conclusively the existence of God,,?

    • Ta Da! This documentary proves you exist.

  48. Not a surprise that ‘the problem with atheism’ is defined by a person who’s either not interested in, or incapable of presenting an honest argument. I wonder if that’s because he realizes from the outset that the only those who already know and agree with his ‘arguments’, will accept them. Those interested in an actual, substantive debate have heard all this tired, overt dishonesty before. He doesn’t even explain what atheism is, for goodness sake! He wants it to be a religion, fine. That doesn’t mean much of anything, except that he apparently believes that because he wants something to be true, that automatically makes it so.

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